17 Things You Didn’t Know About Nelson Mandela

By Keren Mikva Published: July 11, 2013, 09:00am
theamericanconservative.com

theamericanconservative.com

Before Mandela championed peace…

He was a firm advocate for armed struggle against the brutality of the Apartheid system after initial non-violent protests (like the Sharpeville Massacre) failed. In 1961, Mandela set up the Umkonto We Sizwe (“Spearhead of the Nation”, or “MK”), the armed wing of the African National Congress. Held responsible for at least 63 deaths on account of multiple bombings, the group was deemed a terrorist organization by the United States and South Africa.

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  • David12

    OK, I’ve found them now!

    • King_Anonymous

      Why are you happy? What did you learn here? This is just an ugly website i found by those shitty things they call CDN’s with articles written for clicks and pageviews.

      • PennyA

        You’re an idiot KA

        • King_Anonymous

          Yes, despise the truth.

        • troy

          nah, just those the misconstrue it.
          you cake.lol

        • King_Anonymous

          Your comment made no sense at all you illiterate retard.

      • lala

        you are right KA I go 4 your point.

      • Madagas

        K_A u are a fool

        • King_Anonymous

          You’re an idiot.

  • Big Leo

    One thing we need to know about Nelson Mandela is that he had the key in his pocket to get out of jail any time during his sentence. All he needed to do was to renounce terrorism as an instrument of political action. He refused.

    • Mike

      By your reasoning George Washington and the other founding father’s of America were “terrorists.”

      • Kejoy

        Weren’t they? It depends on the victors; it is a truism that the winners make the history to suit themselves. As is happening in South Africa at the moment.

        • Tempt The Black

          Kejoy, you may also need to note that the shit-brained apartheid regime that incarcerated Mandela used terrorism against the blacks as a political weapon. He was therefore right in not renouncing it untill they had done so themselves.

        • klipvis

          Bullshit!

        • aFrICaN

          Bullshit your forehead, be a bit shameless and remove the African map of avatar!

        • Lee-Ann Van Der Byl

          TTB you settled it dear! Im South African!

        • Sylvester M. Azane Kodwo

          I’m not supporting you because am black and you appear to be black.
          Kejoy thinks he/she is cleverer than De Klerk who saw the need for dialogue rather than follow the violent route of his predecessors.If he (Kejoy) has been watching the news on all major radio and TV channels since Mandela passed, he/she would have seen the outpouring of grief and tributes which testify to the fact that even the whites appreciate what this great man did.

          Building bridges should not come from only one section of the divide Everyone, black, coloured, Indian, and white has a role to play

        • fistus

          You have said a mouthful.Unfortunately it is directed at discrimination die-hards who will ignore it.

      • Herb

        As the American rebels violated conventional rules of warfare at the time, arguably yes. But they won, and winners, in the history books at least, cease to be terrorists.

        • stanley

          Jan kotze

          Mandela is an icon,just like Moses he was born to rescue black people of south Africa from king pharow (boere government)

        • hahanono

          wtf are you going on about.

        • sobit

          ja, boetie jan the king name is Jack Pharow

        • JGay

          Jack Pharow was mos the guy with the new fresh look, and wasn’t Mandela the guy with the Pep-Stores brook?

        • Caro

          Skerp!

        • HM

          Yes and now they suffer more than ever under the hand of their own – just like everywhere else in Africa.

        • Lee-Ann Van Der Byl

          Not having money to afford the needs of humanity, is one thing, cos those things do cost money, but being free, which is free, but wasn’t before, suffering can be defined differently by people of different rankings and status. I am free

        • Sylvester M. Azane Kodwo

          Thanks. Even the ‘oppressors’ themselves are free now. They can go to Soweto and not feel threatened.
          They simply choose to bury their heads in the sand, — probably out of shame.

        • yahoo

          great for you doll, but our black are not free. they get free healthcare, but there are no meds in hosp, nor beds, nor docs, and they pick up worse germs in our hosps than they came for treatment; then free education with a crummy syllabus and 80% useless educators.

        • Sylvester M. Azane Kodwo

          So you are saying they should have kept quiet under apartheid simply because you think they were better off? Yes, they suffer poverty, a problem which cannot disappear in a short time., not the indecency of de-humanisation by another race – on African soil!.

        • Gunther Ham

          Lol

        • tony james

          Black people cannot ever be rescued. They will be damned to their lot for eternity because they violat all the laws of nature. I am only observing the truth. Blacks are at the bottom of everything except the prison populations around the world. Other minorities seem to uplift themselves within a generation. It does not matter if you like mandela or not. He was a terrorist and his actions will condem him to hell for eternity.

        • C. Lal

          Poverty, outright explotation and lack of education made it so, thanks to colonisation of decades, if not centuries ! The weak is always trampled, because MIGHT is always RIGHT !

        • william booth

          You do realize that colonization has uplifted this Country from a 5th world state and Has thus improved most of the living standards via Industry, international trade relations ETC …. Yes He WAS a “good” person but he was also a terrorist and a murderer , And if the ppl were so weak then why did they not continue to attack @ Rourkes Drift or The Battle of blood river..Was it the usual Cowardice or was it that there was in the past a mutual respect for the other warrior and warfare was a Respectful affair not a bunch of Baboons playing with explosives

        • fistus

          This country has no shortage of racist idiots.Congratulation you have just qualified.Even your stupid Siener could not see this.Saw all the wrong things.

        • william booth

          You are obviously a closet racist, who says My brother to other races and then gets home and insults the same race… You are missing the point . A terrorist is still a terrorist and a murderer is still a murderer no matter who is in charge in the gov.Im not saying that what he did for the country After his release was a bad thing but what he did before was unfogivable, the same goes for the aparthied regime, ys i am white and no im not a racist I am a Rationalist

        • fistus

          A rationalist would consider all facts pertaining to any situation and draw intelligent conclusion.You have failed.You also don’t seem to know south african history or the one you were taught is a lopsided one.In any fight and battle there are the aggressors and those responding to aggression.The NP responded with aggression to peaceful protest and that was their trade mark.People who are forced into aggression can not be labelled terrorists.

        • yahoo

          hell you are the blind one, peaceful protests have been going on for ages in our country, our NP gov was protecting our borders and the Anc and Pac were driven with commands from outside. everytime a protester gets hurt , the police gets blamed.

        • fistus

          Wrong.Protecting racism.Besides what is your point?You are jumping all over the show without any specific point.

        • HOFNI

          JESUS LOVES YOU

        • Cloete

          Mandela was fighting for the right off all people, for all people to have access to safe water and education and not only the children of Botha and Pienaar them, even in heaven there is justice and it will prevail. He have given up his 30years in prison for other people and even someone whose talking nonsense on a social network will not even do it, I am aware of Jesus who give his life for human to be saved and Nelson Madiba Mandela who went to prison for condemning the oppressor, also heard of Sam Nuuyoma who condemned the white ruler in his country and manage to get them out one by one, if they are at the bottom of everything I think they deserve it, white were also at the bottom of everything, so what is the big deal?

        • Douglas

          there is no place for racism in the world anymore. the world has involved with all on board

        • iqiniso elimu sulwa

          you are either hidin an elephant behind a strip pole or you are blind literally and figuratively…any dumb fool can see that yr comment is kak ekse

        • Hardus

          Racism is a cultic ritual and is not part of the Christianity,
          But Part of Satanist and Muslims, test it your self.

        • chairman

          You are a big fool hardus what have Muslim ,s have to do with this respect your self or i teach you a lesson

        • ritton

          Hardus u blade Kafir

        • Girl gone wise©

          sadly some people are still caught up in the past thinking that another race is still better than another.

        • Pretorius

          Yes poor stupid Sam Nuyoma his democracy has failed now there is malicious rebels wanting to take over his government and its not because of free water.

        • ThatDude Rey

          Where are those rebel and when was that?

        • Solly Nakene

          How shame. Sam Noyuma is not stupid. Stupid are those who were calling him a terrorist, because he is not.

        • Micco

          You are the head of them if they are exist in The Land of the Brave. And be prepared because we will wipe you off in a second.

        • Namibia

          You should just try to take over our country, we will eat you. Dom Boer.

        • Hardus

          Mandela was not longer than 18 years, in Prison the other 12years he was at home no one told you the truth.
          There is a lot of propaganda regards to him,

        • arthur

          You are a GROOT” DOOS” You probably passed matric in s.africa.

          .

        • yahoo

          so after all that, we have a worse edu system than Bantu education, which got a learner to age 12 capable of reading and calculating, and our water is not safe in many provinces, getting worse daily.

        • Emaraldinho

          Mandela is a saint. Full stop. Your colour is not your passport to see the kingdom of God. Mark my words God created man in his image. You are a certified candidate to hell for eternity. The false prophet to be cast into the pit of fire burning with brimstone.

        • pretorius

          Yes Mandela the saint of Lucifer

        • Tempt The Black

          The Saint of Lucifer because he told the likes of you and fellow boers that you were no more special than any other man?

        • Hardus

          His No Is 46664 is coincident,

        • Solly Nakene

          Coincident with what? Why should it be coincident?

        • african

          the people that put him in the cell with the numbers are the real devils then since they had the keys to that hell he was kept in

        • khosy

          MANDELA,MANDELA,MMMMMMAMDELA,THHHHHHHHHHHHE GGGRREATEST.

        • Lee-Ann Van Der Byl

          He didn’t choose it, the real saints of Lucifer put it on him, like the ones who put a crown of thorns into Christ skull. He completed His prophesied mission anyway. Like Nelson Mandela did.

        • praise

          I do admire Madiba a lot. Since he preached reconciliation. How do you even blame him for fighting the oppression. Who is more satanic here, the oppressed or the oppressor. If it was the other way round what would have happened? Bravo Madiba and De’Klerk. The bible says you will judge the people who believe in Jesus Christ by their fruits. What are the fruits? Peace, love, recociliation, forgiveness etc.

          You place Africans at the bottom, well that is where those wicked oppressors put them, and they (oppressors) should be ashamed.

          As you know satan is always out to show he is better than the rest, in fact even better than God himself. So just listen to yourselves, your comments and convince me you are not satan’s accomplices. We shall still forgive you anyway.

          MAY THE MADIBA SPIRIT PREVAIL. MAY GOD BLESS AFRICA

        • Pretorius

          Shame poor blacks everyone is now forced to feel sorry for them. Why can’t you help yourself incompetency. We the Boer owe you nothing. Apartheid were created by the blacks. You the blacks forced us of your land stole our cattle and murdered our ancesters. Now you came here to spunch on us. Please go back to your home lands we don’t need you

        • african

          change ur name to “tshwane” MR pretorius this is the new South Africa

        • LegendForTruth

          And you Pricktorius, Or is it pretorazz?
          Whatever!! You are Lucifer on earth yourself!!

        • fafy

          yu are the saint of satan yoself

        • watson mnaphi

          I cannot say whether or not Mandela was a saint.We are two types of Christians church goers and born again Christians.If Mandela was born again,he is a saint.

        • Van Dyk

          Hey pretrias, how about you come to Soweto n I show u what we’re made of?

        • Pnut

          wow these comments though. You realise what a face we put on for the world with this garbage… South Africa has a way to go yet

        • Pretorius

          van Dyk soweto is the property of the Arikaner we owe you nothing go and build a soweto in Xhosa land. Incompetent thieves. Even the clothes you wear was stolen from us the whities. You racist

        • Tshele Tsoerenyane

          You failed to kill me in cold-blood, in 1976, during the Soweto Riots, Pretorius. I was 14 years old and unarmed. At least I won the freedom to tell you what I Iike, anytime, For what I wrote about your stupidity today, I could have been hanged, under the racist regime you voted for.

        • Rachael Bempomaa Apenteng

          no lucifer will give up his life for others but ofcourse not everyone will like MADIBA but your stupid unclassified raw hatred can and will never take away the great love millions of people around the world have for him

        • Mondli Mafooa

          Saint of lucifer along with your forefathers boitjie, of which soon you will join them, k.

        • Fanandala

          Mandela does not believe in God, he is an Atheist. Not that this would bother me, but your ignorance does.

        • Derick

          not true, he is a Christian, he chose to keep his faith out of the public eye out of respect for all the other religions practiced in the country. He has the respect and love of the entire nation, but the ANC party has destroyed what Mandela stood for. Mandela will be remembered as a icon for freedom and not as a member of the racist ANC. FYI MAfios, Mandela was on the US international terrorist list until 2008, he was released in 1991, 17 years after he was set free. I find it so funny that the article shows De Klerk as someone that “also” played a role in ending apartheid. He set Mandela free and began the process of democracy. And he’s a BOER Afrikaaner, but wait, didnt Mandela set himself free?

          What People Forget: To classify someone as a terrorist from the late 60s, you were most prob a communist. Russians supplied weapons, Cubans supplied troops and weapons, they supported armed struggles all over the word. While the western world fought for democracy. SA was in that position, fighting communists (with the US and UK ) on the one side, labeling them terrorist. And a regime on the other hand, fighting inside SA borders to keep communism out of the country and keep the Afrikaner in power. To think: SA became a republic in 1960, after the english left, The British ruled for 58 years keeping the Afrikaners and other South African cultures stuck in poverty. They burnt down farm land and killed woman and children in concentation camps. They took over the minning sectors and implemented laws like the native land ACT 1913, where no native can purchase land.

          South Africa has a complex, proud and sensitive history, but it is what it is, Mandela is part of it as is the rest. Under the current ANC government we can expect more drama. Its Apartheid inverted, but this time its the majority oppressing a minority, and history has shown us where this will end.

        • riad

          Well, our world has been sold out to satan anyway, and anyone who has a bit of savvy and do their research should know by now that no man is an idol – NM was a terrorist no matter what he has done for democracy or what else .. real freedom you do not get from man, only from God the Father .. He is the only person that can set you free! People live a life of an illusion because that is what has been created all along .. wake up .. and smell the roses people ..

        • Pretorius

          True words

        • Mafios Matewe

          you can say all we want but this is what God had for you in SA. there is something we need to share NM was a terrorist that time. greediness was the cause for him to be a terrorist if he had said it looking into PWB’s face he would have been sliced to pieces. anyway i agree with you that satan and his followers are playing havoc on us. all we need is to stop them ONENESS will solve it.

          MM

        • LegendForTruth

          Riad? would your name be short for Retard? I wouldn’t be surprised tho’
          you and pricktoria seem to be living in isolated schizophrenic paranoia….
          Your leaders are the devils themselves. Mind I said themselves and not the devil’s advocate…. of which you are one yourselves…
          You create war in every part of Africa where the leader happens to know your true underlying motives… (i.e where you can’t get access to the natural resources (as in the case of Libya-crude oil) and you stand to gain nothing, You create the chaos, you feed the unsuspecting citizens(stupid I’ll call them) your dirty empty promises of “The devil’s gift”, and provide the weapons too. Allowing them to do the dirty work while u look on… you may be white but your nature reeks and is seething dirty.
          We know u, and are watching for you now
          #BloodSuckingVampires!!! DamYaAll to Hell.

        • viking

          Allow me just one comment.During the old wars between the so called Boers and Brittish army we where treated like scum. Blacks had a better chance than whites .Why did only white people rose from the ashes?

        • Namibia

          Viking, the government that came to power was white and it promoted the interests of the white people. Blacks were marginalized and brutalized for more than 100yrs, and it was made into a law. When S.A became truly democratic, the ANC was negotiated to a pulp and were molded into a useless puppet regime for the white minority. Leaders deputed to redress the grievances of the masses turned into the biggest grievance. Else, how can you describe the recent massacre at Marikana, which is owned among many others, by the Church of England and Mr Ramaphosa himself? You have no government in SA but a puppet regime, and as a result you created a vacuum for the likes of Malema to slot himself in, the same Hitler did in Germany. The poor and desperate will always go for someone that speak a language they understand. Just wait and you will see!!!

        • Pretorius

          Hey u stupad we have been living her for 350 years, what recources are you refering too ? The Afrikaner Boer doesn’t own any Mines. Please ask someone who knows something don’t make comments on something you know nothing of

        • Tshele Tsoerenyane

          Broer. Please forgive Mandela for
          winning the elections fair and square. Forgive him unconditionally as
          you have chosen to forgive some of the characters written about in the
          “white man’s bible”. Let us analyse.

          Moses is supposed to have freed Jews. There were allegations of
          murder against him. “White” people who wrote the Bible, and those who
          swear by it, claim God forgave Moses. We “blacks” now believe God
          forgave Moses, but God had never told us that. We believe a rumour.

          King David was supposed to be God’s favourite person. He led a man to
          death, so as to take his wife, while there were a lot more women out
          there. “White” people who wrote the Bible and those who swear by it,
          allege that God still loves him. God did not come and notify “blacks” of
          his decision to continue loving him. We hear that from people who
          display a notion that God loves “whites” more than “blacks”. We believe a
          rumour.

          It is said Nebuchadnazaar was punished 7 years of hardship by God. He
          only had to change and forsake his wicked ways, and his punishment was
          lifted. “Blacks” can easily be led to believe that Nebuchadnazaar is in
          Hell as I write, by the “white” people who wrote the Bible, and those
          who swear by it. Did God not forgive that man while he was on earth? Did
          that man not repent while here on Earth?

          Was it Apostle Paul who was a notorious mass-murderer. Well, he
          changed his ways. We the “blacks” believe that he re-invented himself or
          was forced to preach about a God who loved all His children. Pretorious
          thinks God needs to love “whites”only, while “blacks” continue to fill
          churches, mosques, synagoques, etc.

          Jesus Christ knew before He was born that he was going to end up
          killed for his convictions. He came mentally prepared for that. Why did
          he not give Himself up to his pursuers, when hunted, instead of waiting
          for Judas to betray Him? Did that not make Judas look bad, even to
          “blacks” who never knew the facts, when the event of arrest and
          crucifixion was planned before Judas was born?

          The “white” people who wrote the Bible and those who swear by it can
          always accuse me of being a Satanist, for questioning why Jesus did not
          surrender? The fact of the matter is.. God loves me, and I love him.

          Pretorius and his type shot and killed as many “black”as they can
          during their days in the Apartheid Army, but school children in the
          burning townships (Kasis) did not wait for Moses from the Bible to come
          and rescue them, in 1976. The Hector Petersons of this country gave up
          lives for us “blacks”.

          Now, we come to Mandela….”white” people who considered Apartheid as
          Heaven on Earth, are pissed off that Mandela won a contest for their
          Earthly-Heaven, now they cannot forgive Mandela. Some even allege that
          their God has already banished Mandela to Hell.

          Here is some food for thought……”white man’s favourite leader
          Terreblanche died under mysterious circumstances, and nothing happened.
          Not even a comment from God. God sent 2 Earthquakes to warn us that
          Mandela was about to go. He let it rain all 2 weeks, but people braved
          the rain to attend memorials, from far and near. He give us good weather
          for the funeral day. And Pretorious still call him a Satanist.

          Show us ignorant “black” people some scrolls or burning tablets and
          trees written by God, in these days and times, that Mandela is in Hell,
          or stop putting words into the mouth of this God that “white” people
          wrote about, and some swear by, because you will always invent whatever
          emotion you prefer Him to feel towards other people.

          Please let God use His own brain for some other complex situations, some times, Pretorius and fellow Mandela-haters.

        • Thabza

          You speak as if you know it all… we dnt need rescuing, bear i mind that so called advanced society you carcausens have brought to the world has destroyed the very place of our existance, yal are major contributors to global warming, the extinction of many beautiful creatures god created, you dont see daming you guys. i see that your weak and corrupted, and precive us africans through the eyes of the racist KK’s, and natzi’s. before you condem any one to hell you look at your self…. i bet you have not done anything to change the lives of a 25 people, who are you judge him… the reason why the world is the way it is, is beavuse of IDIOTS LIKE YOU.

        • Sandra

          ooh really.. Tony..

        • tebogo

          black is best,have real roots in a continent envied by all human race, who cares about you who think white is suprior,correct and all that is worth. better for those who focus their energies on getting the world right, whoelse than the main man himself?nelson rolihlahla mandela,long live,the great man

        • Mafios Matewe

          tell him tell him how did he come to this our continent. i love it they can hate us but they can do nothing it was that time when we were oppressed that they were able kill, kick, spit at us and rape. LONG LIVE NM

        • Douglas

          you are a disgrace to the world, you mr. Tony james to speak in this tone.

        • Justin

          and you got 33 fellow racists to like your comment. Well done… Do you guys get together to wear your sheets and burn crosses…?

        • Kampanga

          racists are die hard. they don’t deserve a hand of reconciliation. Future is certainly on the blacks side

        • qiniso elimsulwa

          you are a retard ekse

        • Dave2677

          If Mandela was a terrorist simple way is leave Africa to its benefactors and go back where you belong. How can one be a terrorist in your own land that is being invaded by people who don’t have respect for being in your land. We may have been illiterate ignorant whatever you choose to say but Africa is for Africans not Afrikanners

        • alteefura

          africa is for humans who are god fearing no colour counts

        • Matlhogonolo Sharron Modisane

          u are so ignorant.

        • Pretorius

          Yes everyone who does not except your point of view is regarded ignorant. Up till now you’ve been reluctant, on giving me a list of everything the whities has stolen from you. Sharon is a name of white woman, from whom did you steal it from. Anyhow you can keep it as gratitude from the whities you hate so much. Similar everything you own is gratitude from the whities even your panties and shoes. The only way that this racist envy towards us whities will stop, is for you to go back to your homeland and stay there, and please take your ANC with you. I promise we won’t miss you. At least there you can continue your tradition of theft, murder and corruption. We the whities don’t need you. South Africa would be a piece full, crimeless advancing country with proper world-class education without you. In fact in the past twenty years blacks have made no contribution to the country, as everything they touch becomes fraudulent and corrupt. So Ms.Sharon please continue with your envy towards whities who has giving you everything you own. I will expect a more positive attitude towards us whities when you reply to my writing’s.

        • Justin

          Pretorius, You are such a racist idiot, you can not even make an argument, you’re not merely ignorant, you’re a complete waste of time. Even if all the knowledge of the world was granted to you, you would still be unable to comprehend the truth. All you would do is reject everything that does not accord with your world view despite all the proof, and continue on your way oblivious.

          You are not ignorant, you are an idiot, because no matter how much knowledge you are presented with, you refuse to see.

          I find it ironic that you can state that other people are unable to accept any other viewpoint other than their own…

          Aren’t you the president of that club?

        • Pretorius

          Ah Justin I really don’t see the purpose of me arguing with you. All the information you gave are from sites written by racist blacks like yourself. Think you should chance your nick name to AMANGA KAKULU

        • Justin

          LOL, you never argued, argument means that you need to have a basis for representing another view, and you have never been able to provide one. You always state you can provide the sources of your argument, and to date have failed to site one such source.

          On what basis do you say I am “black”???

          On what basis do you say that the sites I quoted where written by “Blacks”?

          Or is it just another time that you make completely unfounded allegations? Oh wait, I forgot, so far all your allegations have been unfounded and completely baseless.

          Lets look at SA History, just one of the MANY sites I used.

          Its board is

          South African History Online Team

          Board of Directors

          Omar Badsha (CEO)

          Dr. Ashraf Dockrat Chairperson

          Dr. Brenda Leibowitz – Treasurer

          Dr. Ciraj Rassool

          Jabuleni Sikhakhane

          Seelan Naidoo

          Who do you classify as racist “Blacks” over here…

          Or of course, the Wikipaedia pages I quote, they must all be written by Racist blacks.

          And the Irony, you are self admitted AWB member, and you calling other people racist.

          And what about you, the very fact that you are referring / categorizing people as blacks, and again according to you, the fact that they are black means that they are inherently savage and uncivilized, does that not make you the Racist.

          Are you projecting again… if you are, you probably consider everyone else as utter moron and di@k heads…

          But I guess everyone that disagrees with you must be a racist black.

          But then what does that mean in relation to the fact that the people on the Afrikaaner forums also think you are an idiot. In fact, one of them stated that you are precisely the type of person that give Afrikaaners a bad name.

          Now, I don’t think that you give Afrikaaners a bad name, as a people they are a pretty wonderful, open and caring bunch of people. I also think that advert, “Met ys, ja, met ys” is the perfect example of the Afrikaaner.

          So you, you don’t give them a bad name, you are not part of that group,. you are a racist AWB member, and the people that you identify with are ashamed of you.

        • Justin

          http://www.sahistory.org.za/page/about-us

          South African History Online (SAHO) is the largest, independent, history education and research institute in the country. It was established in June 2000, as a non-profit Section 21 organisation.

          The institute is run by an independent board of directors, comprising historians and people from the private sector.

          SAHO’s aim is to promote history and the arts and to address the bias in the way history is written and represented in South African educational and cultural institutions.

          So I guess because it is a research institute, and funded by instutues like those below, it must be organised by “racists blacks”, man you really are an idiot, aren’t you Pretorius.

          CATHSETA

          The Ford Foundation

          The National Arts Council of South Africa

          The National Heritage Council

          Bateman BV

          De Beers

          The Department of Arts & Culture

          BP South Africa

          The Carnegie Corporation of New York

        • Pretorius

          Board of Directors,Omar Badsha (CEO),Dr. Ashraf Dockrat Chairperson,Dr. Brenda Leibowitz ,TreasurerDr. Ciraj Rassool,Jabuleni Sikhakhane ,Seelan Naidoo what exactly do they know about SA history. Not even one Afrikaner name there. And where do they get their information from most certainly not from Afrikaner history books. And as far as I know the only history writers from SA were Brits, Germans and Boers. Those above mentioned names have no history here. Parasites creating lies and getting paid for it. Well at least they have someone who believes their lies. YOU

        • Justin

          Make up your mind, lol.

          Are you asking for their credentials or stating that they are black racists… Focus Pretorius, I know it is hard for you to think logically (or at all) but try to focus…

          What is your beef, you stated they were black racists.

          Are you now making the allegation that only Afrikaaners can write history.

          Your phrase, “as far as I know” is certainly indicative of your lack of knowledge. No, german, boers and brits were not the only history writers. There was people like John Ngube, who wrote histories in the 1910 – 1940’s, etc… Of course, you won’t give any credence to what he wrote because of the colour of his skin…

          And, if you bother to go to the site mentioned above, you would see in their references, that the use the works of

          References

          Cloete, P.G. (2000). The Anglo-Boer War: a chronology, Pretoria: Lapa

          Wallis, F. (2000). Nuusdagboek: feite en fratse oor 1000 jaar, Kaapstad: Human & Rousseau

          Burret.R.S, (date unknown), Gaborone and the Anglo-Boer War, 1899-1902,The South Africa Military History Society, Military History Journal, No.2, Vol.13 [online]. Available at: samilitaryhistory.org [accessed 8 February 2010]

          they also use the Anglo Boer War museum, etc…

          Which of these are the parasites that you claim is creating lies and getting paid for them.

          Further, you can not provide any substance for alleging that they are lies, you claim they are lies merely because you don’t like what they are saying.

        • Justin

          also, that same site states that the British kept concentration camps of the Boers. According to their figures there were 27 927 persons died in the camps, 1 676 men, mainly those too old to be on commando, 4 177 women and 22 074 children under sixteen.

          I guess that must also be a lie…

        • Pretorius

          So Justin if you did read the history like you mention here, then you should understand that we the Afrikaner have no obligation toward blacks or brits. Then you should also understand the origin of apartheid. And from what I read at SA history the Afrikaner is at fault of mistreating blacks. But the truth is they mistreated us forced and murdered us of their land and helped the brits achieving their goals of mineral theft. That is the truth

        • Justin

          Really, YOU read something, … I can’t believe it. Please copy and paste what you read, so I can see how you came to your conclusion… Yeah, right, like you would stoop to providing proof.

        • Pretorius

          Well you just corfirmed that the blacks forced of their land forced us into consetration camps burnrd down our farm killed our cattle and stole the property of the Boers. What more proof do you want. Tipical Proffesor Justin. Even if i give more proof your point of view can’t be changed. Do you have a point of view if you do please explain

        • Justin

          Oh MY WORD…

          Every time I think I have plumbed the depths of your idiocy, and you surprise me…

          Tell me, where the Heck did I state that the “blacks” forced off their land forced you into a concentration camp?

          I agreed that the British forced the Boers into concentration camps and killed tend of thousands…

          How do you get from that your statement above???

          I am am dumbfounded at your level of stupidity. How can you even function in day to day life?

          What proof have you given, jeez what argument have you even presented. One made up fact peppered with a myriad of lies, and you call that proof…

          Did you fall out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down with your face?

        • Justin

          so you admit that the site reports the truth anyway… glad at least you can come to one logical conclusion…

        • Pretorius

          Justin idiot amanga why do you think the brits employed blacks in the anglo Boer war

        • KENETH

          he legalised homosexuality.he did nothing except stay in jail for 27 yeras.all the money which his relatives are fighting over came from gays overseas

        • mageza chauke

          Your argument will take you nowhere, Mandela sacrifice alot,so is De klerk, is a fact, not only for blacks- but for the the country.
          how blind are you to see that?, i will never see all whites as you are, but i will regard you as one of those people who are lazy to think. people who only thinks that they are the one who exist in the plannet. let me tell you, no one is important than other, there is no first class citizen of any nations. all people are equal before God

        • Justin

          Well said, we’re not speaking against a “race” as if that whole concept was not irretrievable flawed, but about idiots that want to be defined by their skin colour and place of birth of their ancestors…

        • Jonathan

          YOU GUYS ARE TAKING THIS POLITICS THING TO FAR. 21ST CENTURY PEOPLE….. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE RACISM AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE WHITE VS BLACK. THAT’S JUST THE WAY LIFE IS. BUT TO BE BITTER AND CONDEMN PEOPLE WILL GET THE WORLD NO-WHERE.

          I SAY DONT JUDGE SOMEONE BY THERE SKIN COLOUR. NO-ONE ASKED TO BE WHIRE OR BLACK.

        • Justin

          Well, I don’t believe in the concept of race, but will agree with you that people should not be judged on the colour of their skin.

          Pretorius on the other hand says that the colour of your skin makes you into certain types of people…

        • mageza chauke

          Is high time people must learn to respect each other, whether black or white. south africa is for everyone who leave in it. the current whites never come from holland or wherever, they are born here, THEY ARE SOUTH AFRICANS-1652 was the time when van riebeek came to sa. that’s a history to be known. is that’s why i respect people like Mandela and friends, not the current crops of politician who tend to be corrupt cos they will tell you that even the whites were so. that’s not the way we can go forward. fact is a fact. We need each other so dearly in these country.
          on God’s issue, don’t be judgemental when you speak.

        • Justin

          thumbs up

        • Graham Knott

          Well said, spoken like a true South African.

        • Pretorius

          Hey you british thief go back to britian COWARD

        • siboniso zulu

          well said..dankie

        • praise

          YES, WELL SAID YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. EVERYONE SHOULD REPENT OF ALL RACIAL UNDERTONES. MAY SOUTH AFRICA (BOTH BLACK AND WHITE) THRIVE TOGETHER AND MAY THE ALMIGHTY GOD BRING BLESS.

        • Pretorius

          We don’t need you go back to your home lands. You blacks need us the Boer, you can’t survive without us

        • Ena Knox

          History will always be contentious BUT that’s the way the world changes. Lets NOT dwell in the past too long, but rather focus on the PRESENT. I KNOW there’s a lot going wrong in our country but lets stand together and TRY to FIX this crazy world, a little at a time.

        • praise

          WONDERFUL. THAT IS THE MADIBA SPIRIT. LONG LIVE

        • Ngizithembile

          Yes Pretorius, your right is to be an idiot.
          Thank you for your view thinking you representing whites.
          Your actually embarrassing them.

        • Pretorius

          They should include as chairman Prof Asaf. Kakpraterkoelie.

        • Justin

          LOL, of course the fact that they have academic doctrates does not make any impact with you, after all, you abhor intelligence and education. As far as you’re concerned, you merely have to have an opinion and that is enough to prove you right, no matter how stupid the opinion is…

          Shame, it must be hard being a moron, perhaps you should go into therapy…?

        • Pretorius

          Yes Justin of course they must be doctors and professors so that it can add more credit to their lies. All I want to proof is that us Afrikaners owe the blacks nothing and that they must go back to their home lands where they belong and fo4rced us from and take their satanism anc with them we don’t need them.

        • Justin

          LOL, so all you want is proof, and if all the proof indicates otherwise, you will just ignore it…

          Where exactly are these homelands, do they include the lands they were on when Jan van Riebeeck first landed… ?

          We kinda knew that about you long ago, but thanks for confirming it.

          Do you even know what satanism means, or is it just something else that you like to say without any understanding?

        • praise

          Before the whites came to Africa, we had a great civilizations. Civilization started in Africa, Egypt.We did not need their panties or whatever it is Pretorius is talking about. But when the plunderers came we lost it all. We did not go to your country to steal from you, but you did come to ours to steal from us. You enriched yourselves from loot from Africa. If I were you, I would be crying in shame.

        • Tshele Tsoerenyane

          Broer. Please forgive Mandela for winning the elections fair and square. Forgive him unconditionally as you have chosen to forgive some of the characters written about in the “white man’s bible”. Let us analyse.

          Moses is supposed to have freed Jews. There were allegations of murder against him. “White” people who wrote the Bible, and those who swear by it, claim God forgave Moses. We “blacks” now believe God forgave Moses, but God had never told us that. We believe a rumour.

          King David was supposed to be God’s favourite person. He led a man to death, so as to take his wife, while there were a lot more women out there. “White” people who wrote the Bible and those who swear by it, allege that God still loves him. God did not come and notify “blacks” of his decision to continue loving him. We hear that from people who display a notion that God loves “whites” more than “blacks”. We believe a rumour.

          It is said Nebuchadnazaar was punished 7 years of hardship by God. He only had to change and forsake his wicked ways, and his punishment was lifted. “Blacks” can easily be led to believe that Nebuchadnazaar is in Hell as I write, by the “white” people who wrote the Bible, and those who swear by it. Did God not forgive that man while he was on earth? Did that man not repent while here on Earth?

          Was it Apostle Paul who was a notorious mass-murderer. Well, he changed his ways. We the “blacks” believe that he re-invented himself or was forced to preach about a God who loved all His children. Pretorious thinks God needs to love “whites”only, while “blacks” continue to fill churches, mosques, synagoques, etc.

          Jesus Christ knew before He was born that he was going to end up killed for his convictions. He came mentally prepared for that. Why did he not give Himself up to his pursuers, when hunted, instead of waiting for Judas to betray Him? Did that not make Judas look bad, even to “blacks” who never knew the facts, when the event of arrest and crucifixion was planned before Judas was born?

          The “white” people who wrote the Bible and those who swear by it can always accuse me of being a Satanist, for questioning why Jesus did not surrender? The fact of the matter is.. God loves me, and I love him.

          Pretorius and his type shot and killed as many “black”as they can during their days in the Apartheid Army, but school children in the burning townships (Kasis) did not wait for Moses from the Bible to come and rescue them, in 1976. The Hector Petersons of this country gave up lives for us “blacks”.

          Now, we come to Mandela….”white” people who considered Apartheid as Heaven on Earth, are pissed off that Mandela won a contest for their Earthly-Heaven, now they cannot forgive Mandela. Some even allege that their God has already banished Mandela to Hell.

          Here is some food for thought……”white man’s favourite leader Terreblanche died under mysterious circumstances, and nothing happened. Not even a comment from God. God sent 2 Earthquakes to warn us that Mandela was about to go. He let it rain all 2 weeks, but people braved the rain to attend memorials, from far and near. He give us good weather for the funeral day. And Pretorious still call him a Satanist.

          Show us ignorant “black” people some scrolls or burning tablets and trees written by God, in these days and times, that Mandela is in Hell, or stop putting words into the mouth of this God that “white” people wrote about, and some swear by, because you will always invent whatever emotion you prefer Him to feel towards other people.

          Please let God use His own brain for some other complex situations, some times, Pretorius and fellow Mandela-haters.

        • Mmombasa

          Listen you shithead Pretorius boer! If you do not like Africans & Blacks, you might as well leave Africa and return to Netherlands’ assuming there is still land in there considering that half the country is reclaimed from the north Sea

        • Ena Knox

          Justin you are an embittered NASTY person. And I AM WHITE you horrible man. Have you NO SHAME????? We whites have bastardized and raped every country we took over. HOWEVER we also brought education and a EUROPEAN lifestyle to IMPOVERISHED peoples – so History will thank us for that. YES they (Blacks ) have a lot of catching up to do BUT they will get there. I agree some mistakes are being made – which is costing the EDUCATION department a fortune but hopefully they will realize that a bridging year before UNIVERSITY is necessary to let them catch up !!!!!!!!!!!!! before throwing GOOD money away and sidelining the BRAINS in the Country.

        • Justin

          LOL, why do you say I’m embittered?

          I also don’t understand what you mean by stating that you are white. Your skin colour makes no difference to me. Unless you are referring to Pretorius, which would make more sense, as you are supporting the position that “blacks” can “catch up”

          However, why do you say that the areas that the Europeans took over (prefer that terms rather than the racist term “white” )were improvished?

          Lets look at America, the Native American had a rich cutural life, very little starvation and lived in harmony with nature. No Impoverishment there. Compared today with 25% malnutrition, polluted lands etc…

          I am sure that they are worse off.

          Look at all the other colonies taken by force. Most of there position were better off before the Europeans came.

          So yes, they might not have big houses and a big impact on the surrounding country, but it does not necessarily mean that they were impoverished.

          However, not saying that all the cultures were good, I have the inherent sexism of many cultures, but I am saying that being made Europeanian is not de facto a good thing.

        • Namibia

          Freedom as we have today did not come as a result of having whites coming to their moral sense but as a result of fighting for what we knew was due to us. All in all, the fight was about the land, and that, my dear friend, is what we’re after. Take your bags and book a ticket to oblivion, because we are coming for our land. VIVA MALEMA, VIVA EFF!!!!!!!!

        • Fee

          U r a racist. Why do u hate black ppl?

        • kal

          mother fcking pig

        • susan

          kal dat name is too soft on him use a hard one like ;born bastard

        • Nelson

          It is people like you who think they know more than everyone in the wold ,how do you judge blacks like you made them , you are not qualified to judge blacks this is the creation of God not a mistake , you are sick you need help you are a Racist

        • segedodo

          hey…. you are so short sighted that you can see your own retina. hahaha.

        • Basima

          Another racist bigot with obviously no college education talking. People like you are the reason why the world is not yet a better place. You failed to mention the history of black people and how they’re yet to recover from the effects of slavery and colonialism.

        • Cde Truth

          Mandela our Father, we will continue to push them out of AFRICA, and “thou shall be crying”, as they go back home.

        • Johnny

          I wondered if you are either muslim ,christian or other religion .None of those religion permitted nobody no matter what to judge anyone in respective of color ,race or tribal to say. As such i am not in a position to either judge or condemn you for your words agaist Mandela but, watch yourself if you belong to God or satan.

        • Hardus

          That is absolute the truth no one can deny that, He also go on hate riots in Durban and else where, and hidden by the media, not to show the world the truth.

        • ThatDude Rey

          Its a shame that there still plastic fools around the world with such thinking and mind of a pest like you… We all humans irrespective of colour or race and the success of one is not depended on their race but on ones determination. Whites are fortunate because they have a head-start of over 100 years but one can still be proud at the rate blacks are progressing…

        • praise

          Nooo!!! They interrupted our development. Somebody go read about Egypt. All the Chemistry (which by the way came from the word Kemet meanding black), Physics, medicine, writing etc, started right here in Africa, so did humanity. White is only a recessive gene, so if you are white still your origin is black. What colour was Adam and Noah after him?

        • loyiso

          yes i raise my hand mandela was and still is a terrorist.i couldn’t hve said it better maself.

        • LegendForTruth

          You are a shithead… Go drown in ur own Pee.

        • ALTEEFURA

          all men are equal the white taught us to HATE THE BLACK ……GOD. ALLAH NKULUKULU,JEHOVAH LOVES EVERY HUMAN BEING……. THE BLACKS ARE CORRUPT BECAUSE THE WORLD(WEST) TEACHES THEM

        • Peter

          You are a racist pig.

        • Lee-Ann Van Der Byl

          There are many actions short of terrorism that can condemn you too to hell, don’t judge, you have no idea exactly how God will Judge.

        • Kate Morris

          you fool tony james

        • mxolana

          because he fought for freedom for all?

        • Girl gone wise©

          its people like you who supported the Apartheid Government?,it doesnt matter what you think, terrorist or not, he fought for freedom and equality alongside Walter Sisulu and Oliver Thambo. its a shame that you keep calling him a terrorist just because the Apartheid government was defeated and he even managed to form the Peace and Reconciliation commission and forgave the Apartheid government for everything it did to all people of color. If the government believed he was a terrorist why didnt they kill him while he was in prison?. Crime is not a color thing.

        • langton

          That is mind- poverty

        • Tateman

          Bloody racist dog, you enslaved us for half a century, colonised us for a century and now you call our leaders terrorists, Mugabe dealt with you in Zim and he is not finished

        • fistus

          Bitter loser.You are so stupid that you don’t realize that you caused the problem.What you see is the result of your destructive policies.These will be with us for long time and having people like yourself will extend it much further.In your convoluted vocab terrorists are black.Apartheit government killed more blacks and destroyed their lives more than the freedom fighters.Who is the terrorist?

        • Pretorius

          Mandela did’nt do anything just wasted his time in prison it was FW de Klerk the traitor who rescued the blacks from i don’t know what. They still don’t look rescued to me.

        • yeherzkel

          you’re the type that should be living in Zimbabwe for Mugabe to take care of your type,

        • Boer

          Mugabe can not take care of anything, not of himself, his country so how would you recommend he takes care of the whites who he must be greatful for, for his existing lifestyle?, he is black, so is Mandela. It is only unwise white liberals that gave these oxygen thieves a chance to shine in the world. We all now what this means. It means nothing. Just look at the rest of Africa stupid.

        • kampanga

          Mugabe has sorted the lot of you, and you deserve it you thieves

        • Pretorius

          Yes Mugabe has even sorted his own people that’s why more than half of his citizens are living in SA

        • Ian

          Very simplistic notes about a very complicated set of circumstances. If only all of us were designed like you.

        • Pretorius

          I don’t know what you mean, but if there is anything you would like to know about history i have the recources just ask.

        • Ian

          I am not puzzled by you not knowing what I mean because your reasoning is simpler than the simplest of statements. Btw, how can I ask you anything about history when you cannot even spell resources ?

        • Pretorius

          Ian: I told you before that you have no point and obviously no knowledge on your subject. But I will still accommodate you who know maybe you can learn from me.

        • Justin

          we have asked several times, but you never deliver.

          Oh wait, once you said that Wilbur Smith books were your authoritative sources… lol

          Ian, Don’t waste your time trying to reason with this guy, he would not answer any of the the issues you raise. basically, he is a coward and can not even support his own view point.

        • Pretorius

          Justin: I now understand why you post all these negative replies towards me. And I clearly recognize the racist tone of your reasoning. It is so obvious that you a hater of The Boers. I can promise you that you won’t gain anything with your negative insult towards us Boere. But keep it up write more negative lies toward hardworking whites who carry the economy of this satanist government. It might be that you will gain favor, from your beloved corrupt government were the biggest thief, corrupt, fraudulent, and rapist of aids victims is the president. Once you gain the favor of his followers, you will be granted free housing, water and electricity if you really reveal as to how much you hate the Boere you might even get a monthly social grand and free groceries.

        • Justin

          When did I ever post anything racist, I remember I gave you this challenge before, and you could show NOTHING. The fact that I think that you are an idiot has nothing to do with your skin colour, but with your lack of logical thinking, your inability to consider anything outside of your comfort zone, your inability to present a reasoned argument.

          The fact that you make sweeping statements, that are racist, and you can not back them up at all,

          No, you imbecilic oaf, its not your skin colour, which I can not see, but your mind (or lack of it) that brings out the negative comments.

          I repeat my challenge, find even one example of me being racist, or that I am a hater of Boers, and maybe someone, somewhere, in the outer cosmos, might take you seriously.

          But then again, you can not do so, can you…

          And just by the way, just as an example of your fundamental lack of understanding, let me take some time to show how much I oppose the current government, which I mentioned on this posts, but of course, it was not in your worldview, and therefore you ignored.

          You really are a total moron, aren’t you…?

          Give me a while, and I will post the anti ANC comments that I have made, just to show that your comments I love this government is as far off as the rest of your comments.

          (Nowadays, when someone makes an extremely stupid statement, that is glaringly false, I like to say, “Excuse me, I think you made a Pretorius”)

        • Justin

          Justin • a day ago

          And where have I discredited the Afrikaaner Boer, show me one example?

          Bet you can find plenty of examples of discrediting apartheid and any system of discrimination, and you personally,because you are bit of an idiot who refuses to deal in facts and instead spout opinionated drivel that you can not or refuse to defend with facts or logical argument.

          But discrediting the Afrikaaner Boer, come on… seriously, try reading what is written instead of jumping to insane conclusions or indulging in whimsical flights of fantasy.

        • Justin

          Justin • 22 days ago

          Bol, silly Pretorius, don’t you know that Bafana Bafana is a soccer team. Man, everyone you know is probably pointing fingers at you and laughing. “Daardie ou dink dat bafana bafana is a rugbyspan. jislaaike, maar hy is a poephol”.

          LOL.

          If you could read and understand, you would have seen that I don’t take sides. I am scathing towards racists, be the on the ANC or people yearning for the good old apartheid days.

          i support any idea that is right, morally, irrespective if it is a person that I despise that gives voice to the idea or a friend. Equally, if I believe that a friend is voicing an idea that is morally wrong, then I will oppose that idea.

          It is the rightness or wrongness of the issue where I will take my stance, not on any particular groups side.

          Which is why I can oppose your stance that Apartheid was the best for all the inhabitants of South Africa, and your whole, “This country was empty when we got here” theory, and at the same time agree that the ANC betrayed the common person and that they seem to be out merely to line their own pockets.

          That they are promoting racism in the country and that BEE in its current form is racist and does nothing to address past inequalities. Further, that the ANC policies is designed merely to entrench their top party members position in the elite and not to benefit the population overall.

          So I feel quite free to point out areas of ANC bashing that you missed, while at the same time telling you that your viewpoints, (and I am still convinced that you and Boerewitman1 are the same person) are racist and immoral.

          Ps, I am not particularly enamored of either soccer or rugby. I rarely watch bafana, they have gone down since the world cup… I supported the springboks and am still convinced that Bryce Lawrence deliberately and with forethought robbed them the last world cup. But that being said, not really a fan of rugby either, will watch when in front of me, but won’t go out of my way…

          But I will support both teams because I am South African, despite politics in and out of sport, this is my home and my land.

          I support all who live in it and hope for the day when they will support each other, irrespective of superficial differences.

          I pray for that day.

          PPs,, so far, I have only criticized racists, its an internet forum, I only know how you classify yourself when you tell me. You seem to identify yourself as white. So I can not understand why you would allege that I critise everything a “white” man says. It would be more accurate to say I critised you (Boerewitman1) , Wim, and Big Joe, or is it Leo…

          Lol, I even criticized myself, when I made a wrong assumption and found it out, I had to come back and apologise for it. Without prompting, I may add.

          I don’t apply any weight to my pigmentation. I consider myself South African, and that as far as it goes. And, btw, you don’t know how to classify me either, do you??? You are desparate to put me in a box so that you, like Wim, can make catergorisation of my “bantu understanding”, but you can’t do that, as you have no idea what I am, and indeed, without reading what I say, you will have no idea what I am, because who I am does not depend on how suntanned I am or the curliness of my hair. It is my thoughts that determine who I am!

          Who are you, Pretorius?

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          sigh, its obvious you only listen to yourself. If you bothered to read anyone else’s comment, you would have seen that I am against the ANC…

          And you would have sen that I presented evidence, which you just ignore, without presenting any evidence in return.

          But maybe I should try your tactics.

          I have read every book in the entire world and invented a time machine, and having gone back in time to see first hand the events, I can tell you that you are totally wrong…

          There was no concentration camps of the Boere, indeed, it was a spa resort and the British waited on the Boere hand and foot. I saw this with my own eyes and every book in the world agrees with me.

          The the boere made a deal with the Illumanti to make is if the British caused the war, when instead it was just the Boere that wanted more land.

          Really, this is all true from personal eyewitnesses whose names I can not mention and all the books in the world, and because there are so many book, I can not name one unbaised source.

          But what, I can give you the name of Edgar Rice Burroughs, read his books and you can see what good people the British are and that the Boere were Judas in their dealings with the British…

          Man, its fun being Pretorius, you can make up any crap and not have to justify any of it…

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago
          Sigh, I agree that the British did terrible things, it was part of the whole imperialistic movement and the notion that people are different , but hating the British now for the things that they did then is wrong. It is the same as if the “blacks” now hating the “whites” now for the things that were done by others to others.

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          they moderating my reply.

          if it ever get moderated, you will note that I apologise. You’re right, that comment of racism should not have been directed at you. It was uncalled for and undeserved, I was in the wrong.

          You may by all means call me indigenous, I was born here. So were my folks, for many generations.

          I would consider those of Dutch descent, from way back, also to be considered indegenous.

          I also will state that I believe that classifying oneself, or any one else, on the basis of pigmentation, is racist. I would no more call you “white” than I would call myself or “Black” or “Coloured” or “Indian” or “non-white”.

          I can however, trace my forebears, through many generations to Ireland, Scotland, Japan, Malaysia and of course, Africa.

          What does that make me, hopefully human and not a group catergories by my pigmentation or lack thereof.

          Discussion on Mail & Guardian Online

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago
          Nie wat, as a mens rassies is, is jy rassies, dit maak nie saak wat sy vel kleur is nie.

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          Watch out, the crab is getting away, we not going to have crabsticks for supper….

          I am totally against comments like that, I disagree with classification based on race. like I said to your earlier post, but I guess since it did not adher to your pre-conceptions, you immediate
          ly erased it from your mind.

          Now that I answered your question, let me ask you one.

          Can you give one example where I was racist, please feel free to copy and paste :)

          I see no reply coming from you on this question :)

        • Justin

          So, not trying to get away that the ANC failed to properly address the inbalances created by apartheid, and they should have by now done so, but wanting to show you factors that had an impact on those stats
          Justin • a month ago

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          Have to agree with you there 100%. I think that the ANC instituted the model C school, which basically requires the parents to contribute to the education, to keep the masses ignorant. What genius would expect to address the inequality of education by expecting the parents in the poor areas to try and provide a similiar education as can be given by parents in the rich neighbourhood.

          guess which neighbourhoods the ANC elite sends theiir children to.

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          My father taught us that we need to know how people live. As small Children he would take us into the townships, into the houses. My uncle lived Alexandra township.

          My father would then take me to the affluent area, and show me how those people lived.

          3-4 families shoved into a small shack that had two rooms, and an old granny in a mansion.

          My father did the same for my kids, when they were six.

          The ANC has a lot to answer for, the position has NOT changed a lot for the masses. Most of the inequalities entrenched in apartheid has just gotten deeper, the ANC members (at least their elite) has become millionaires.

          except for superficial changes (we can now go to whatever beach we want to , woohoo) the plight of the masses remain largely unchanged from Apartheid days.

          Crime has increased, people are no longer scared of being sambokked for no reason, and know they will be given due process instead of being beaten and left for dead, and this unfortuantely now leads them to sense of entitlement, and lawlessness.

          I am not blind to the many faults of the ANC south Africa. This is not the country that my family and I fought for, the Azania that I espoused. But it is still better than Apartheid, because at least if the people take their blinkers off, they have the right to vote the people that are currently exploiting them (which is different from outright oppression) out of gov.

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          Oh, don’t get me wrong, the ANC has a lot to answer for in the they did not address the inequalities entrenched in the apartheid system, I could go on about the wrong choices made in education, wealth redistruibution, tender system etc, ….

          But the point remains this, their job was to redress THE INEQUALITIES AND OPPRESSION ENTRENCHED BY THE APARTHEID SYSTEM.

          and yes, they failed, however, pointing the finger at the failure of the ANC to address the previous injustices does not make such injustices any less. It does not make the sins of apartheid go away.

          And yes, Apartheid was the root cause of all of those racially divided inequalities. So much so that it needs a system to readdress it, and the ANC failed. No doubt, want to point fingers at the ANC for not doing good by the masses, I will be right there with you.

        • Justin

          ustin • a month ago

          Nothing new here Wimmie, I was one of the people that believe that the ANC hijacked the struggle from people that were before, like the Black Consciousness Movement and the PAC. They were good political manaouverist, but slow in the stuggle.

          Sharpvillie was organised without them, but they were quick to jump on the bandwagon to make use of the political fall out.

          That being said, there was every reason to start an armed struggle. Unless you think that 20 years of non-violent protest being met with nothing but more restrictions is a good indicator that you must continue in ineffectual behaviour.

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          Being anti-zionist is not the same as being anti-jew.

          Being anti-racism is not the same as being anti-white.

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          Really, EVERY single person in SA had a job… ???

          I also love the way that you call me racist without anything at all to back up that allegation. Well done, your have shown your plan of argument, when someone disagrees, call them racist, you have no use for facts :)

          No need to answer any of my points as to why things were worse back then, because, you can just call me a racist…

          Thanks showing me that the disdain I felt was indeed justified.

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          we can get to the future so much easier if people did not insist on justifying their past. Look at Wim for example.

          or putting a rose hued glasses about the post. Look at you… “we had jobs” really, management jobs was restricted to “whites”, due to generations of abuse, the majority of “blacks” were restricted to unskilled labour.

          The fact that the ANC has not changed this is an indictment on them, not an absolution of the gov back then, they were the ones that actually caused this.

        • Justin

          Justin • a month ago

          Oh, I agree, the ANC has totally messed up and they have a lot to answer for.

          However, I can not agree that the position of the oppresses was better under the apartheid regieme.

        • Pretorius

          Shame justin why don’t you start a feeding sceme

        • Justin

          Bol, feeding schemes is just a way to alleviate guilt, you need to change the system.

          And while I know that you seem to consider people with more pigmentation than you as little more than animals, therefore have no guilt to them remaining in dire situations that they find themselves in through no fault of their own, I do believe that we, people with morals and conscience, should strive to effect change.

          getting rid of apartheid was an important change, but the effects thereof has been diluted by not giving people equal opportunity and resources. It is here that the ANC has failed, as the pigs did in Animal Farm, they became that which was struggled against…

          But seeing that you have read that, I still do not see how you can say I support the ANC… Oh wait, I forget, in your world logic and proof are your arch nemesis and you want nothing to do with either.

        • Justin

          Bol, a self confirmed member of the AWB calls me racist, oh, the irony…

        • Justin

          yet you have never provided one of those resources, oh, except for a writer of fiction, go figure…

        • Ian

          So did Hendrik Verwoed in creating an enabling environment for you to learn the art of objective reasoning at all costs. Where were the other white cabinet ministers when de Klerk just decided to ‘rescue’ the blacks. How was he supposed to maintain apartheid when SA didn’t have access to international finance. Its PW Botha who ‘rescued’ blacks by fingering the international community forgetting that his beloved apartheid SA was only there to the extent that it served the foreign interests of the foreign owners of local capital. How was de Klerk going to buy aircraft spares for you to fly your Boeings wherever if he did not have US dollars? That includes telecom spares, servers, oil, industrial machinery, transformers & their spares, financial systems like ATM’s. All of these you import and have no local productive capacity. No country can survive on its own these days, including the USA. Just ask the USA to switch off SA’s access to their financial systems and go to any local ATM and see if you will get your money. What is obvious is that whoever raised you wasted his/her time. You couldn’t have been born out of marriage, most probably an accidental product of r%7$e or pr&^%$#tion

        • Pretorius

          Dear Ian: Sanctions were the best thing that happened to us here in the apartheid era. We have managed to build fife nukes. We have built our own armour rifles and aircraft. Furthermore we didn’t need anything from Britain or the US, there were many countries that was willing to trade with us. We build our own transformers and electrical equipment, including power stations of all sorts. Furthermore we had the strongest army in the world. We didn’t need us dollars or worthless British pounds. The only thing we needed was oil and even for that we had alternatives. And we certainly don’t need you.

        • Justin

          BOL @ the strongest army in the world…
          BWHAHAHAHAHAHA

          Ian, don’t waste your time. Pretorius, and including his alternate accounts Boere and Witboerman1, is a cretin and does not deign to use logic or facts to support his argument.

          Don’t waste your time trying to reason with this guy, he would not answer any of the the issues you raise. basically, he is a coward and can not even support his own view point.

        • Pretorius

          Poor Justin you must have lost a couple of years somewhere in your life during the apartheid era. What exactly is your point of view, do you have one if any please elaborate. I don’t understand your reasoning. Anyhow if you need any facts on any subject I will be glad to assist you. Or maybe you not educated in the history of the country. Should you have any queries on a history point of view I will be glad to assist you. 90 percent of blacks are not educated in the history of this country, shouldn’t have burn down your schools. Yes well I can imagine how hard it is, not knowing where you come from.

        • Ian

          Thanks Justin for giving me what is most certainly the best advice that I have received this year. I am too proud to reduce my self to his level.

        • Dellee

          now that is ver disrespectful i must say. i am a citizen of South Africa and trust me, we are rescued. Tata Nelson Rholihlahla Mandela is a hero

        • Pretorius

          Tata Nelson does’nt even know his own name. His name is not Nelson. In the Revonia trail he was Steven the garden boy. Poor Steven he was used by the British as a mascot and had to sit in jail for 30 years to promote Brittish interest in SA minerals. Poor thing. Did you know poor Steven the garden boy failed his first year at universit,y and was also expelled in the same year for misconduct. No wonder the British picked him they needed someone stupid.

        • Siphiwe

          lol smart one ”poor boy” is richer than you in more ways than one.

        • frachuks

          you boere talk rubish no wonder mugabe is baying for white blood. by reading thru the comments, one will never fail to pick the mistaken sense of white supremacy.

        • Pretorius

          Oh how i wish i where white

        • Pretorius

          Trust everyone knows that blacks can’t be trusted even you. And what excacly were you rescued from.
          It might be that you are uninformed but everything you own is gratitude from the white man, so next time you see a white man kiss his feet and say thank you. The same with rich mandela everything he owns is gratitude of white men’s tax money. And please stop your racist comments.

        • Matlhogonolo Sharron Modisane

          It will take a long time before the black people of this country are free, a lot has been stolen from them and now what is rightfully ours is coming back to us, Viva ANC viva. Soon we will be educated by the mass. This country is going up.

        • Pretorius

          Please make a list of everything that’s been stolen from you I’ll see to it that you get it back the rest belongs to the whites. Are you sure you know what direction is up or down, doesn’t seem like that.

        • Matlhogonolo Sharron Modisane

          Really now, it seems you live in your own little world Mr.

          I am not even going to try explain myself to you. It seems you lack a life. You make racism your life. How boring could you be. You need to realise there is so much more to life than racism. Wake up b4 u realise u have spent most of your life being bitter.

        • praise

          AMEN

        • kal

          bitch.smelling pig

        • Pretorius

          Kal: or is it kallietjie, what has my smell to do with the subject.

        • praise

          There you go!!! Now we know your motive. You hate De’Klerk, call him traitor because he did the right thing freeing the blacks. We do not need any more arguments, we have identified you Pretorius. May God bless De’Klerk and let him continue doing good.

        • Pretorius

          Poor praise why don’t you just go back to your own home land build shcools hospitals and your own union building, why are you spunching on whites. When mandela the terorist father, first came to Pretoria he found the townPretoria already build by Boers. We owe you the blacks nothing.

        • ignant intelligence

          I disagree Mandela is a token for white supremecy to still rule in Southern Africa. He is like a re-incarnation of Noqause.

        • saikou touray

          true

        • Lee-Ann Van Der Byl

          Thought I was the only one who alikened the events of moses.When the Egyptians decided to stop the Israelites crossing the sea, God closed the waters in on them.God uses people to do his work which is to respond to the cry of his people.The separation model is not of God. And it will continue to be destroyed wherever it shows its head, and in the process there will be casualties,

        • Jasper Stupart

          PHAROAH not PHAOW!!!

        • yahoo

          only prob is, madiba was more like Noah, saved his family and the blacks are still LOST

        • fistus

          Come on,you are settlers and not entitled to any land except Europe.Be grateful we still accept you.

      • Wim Kotze

        Oh, did George Washington also sanction “necklacing” and the slaughter of Zulus at Shell House? Who did Martha murder? Did she also run a “soccer club”?

        • Zia Dee

          Hi Wim, who are you implying did the above?

        • Wim Kotze

          Heard of Nelson & Winnie? Apparently not. Read Anthea Jeffery’s Peoples War.

        • AdamLucifer

          Oh, so now you are saying that Nelson Mandela should be held responsible for the actions of his estranged wife while he was in prison?

        • Wim Kotze

          He was not in prison during the Shell House massacre and he admitted to authorizing actions from his prison cell. Do your own research.

        • Boerewitman1

          THAT IS A FACT

        • kwacka

          No, it is not a fact.

          (Sorry about your broken keyboard)

        • Boerewitman1

          funny

        • Shaunie

          You are clearly distorting the truth to justify you own hatred for the change that has taken place,the IFP not the Zulus marched to the shell house with the intention to murder and the ANC defended themselves or maybe you wanted them to roll over and get killed.I don’t know what research you are talking about,maybe you can direct us to where you got the information,pleeease.

        • saiditall

          Hmm “marched to the shell house with the intention to murder and the ANC defended” IFP were armed with sticks and shields. The ANC were armed with AK47’s and fired from the roof of Shell House, without warning. Amazing how no ANC died, and that no weapons were ever found in Shell House

        • TSOTSI

          EVEN MORE AMAZING THAT THE MASSACRE NEVER EVEN GOT A MENTION FROM THE BILDERBERG UN OR THE BILDERBERG INTERNATIONAL COURT AT THE HAGUE. AS A MATTER OF FACT NEITHER DID THE 4000 INKAHTA FREEDOM PARTY MEMBERS HE HAD SLAUGHTERED BEFORE HIS APPOINTMENT BY THE COMMIE DE KLERK WHO NEVER REALISED HE HAD TO SHARE HIS NOBLE (PIECE) PRIZE. (TERMS AND CONDITIONS APPLY TO EVERY BRITISH PROMISE) BY THE WAY DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOOK DE KLERK’S WIFE WROTE?. SHE SOLD IT TO THE SCOTSMAN NEWSPAPER IN EDINBURGH. ALLTHEY EVER RECIEVED WAS A OVERVEIW SUMMARY OF THE BOOK. SHE WAS FOUND MURDERED THE MANUSCRIPT FOR THE BOOK WAS MISSING, COULD F.W. HAVE HAD A HAND? WHO ELSE HAD A REASON, WHO ELSE WOULD WANT THE MANUSCRIPT OF AN SACP SLEEPER’S WIFE

        • riad

          Now you hit onto something very radical here .. I wonder ????

        • Justin

          As far as I am aware, it was never denied that the ANC armed themselves in preparing for an attack on Shell House. in fact, I am certain that Mandela himself told them to arm themselves in preparation for an attack.

          I am sure that you are also aware that that same marching crowd, according to the apartheid era police records, were involved in earlier shooting instances…

        • saiditall

          “same crowd” and “earlier shooting” sounds much like the political hash dished out to all those that wanted to justify the killing of demonstators, and to dilute the actions of the ANC. Imagine DeKlerk telling the world that anc snipers shot and killed demonstraters in broad daylight and in full view of the general public. Not darling Mandela and his ANC. Cant happen! Then we look at Marikana, and the ANC doing it again.

        • pacaratac

          TOTAL junk Shaunie, the anc did not have to defend themselves as they were never attacked.

        • TSOTSI

          He is referring to HOLIHLAHLA;S TELEVISED ADMISSION TO GIVING THE ORDER TO OPEN FIRE ON UNARMED ZULLU’S MAINLY WOMEN & CHILDREN IN TRADITIONAL DRESS. iT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS 400 MEMBERS OF THE INKATA WERE SLAUGHTERED PRIOR TO THE RIGGED VOTE THAT PASSED FOR AN ELECTION. CHECK THE LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY THAT’S STILL LEFT BEFOR THE BRITS,DUTCH AND SWEDES BUY IT FOR 5C IN THE POUND

        • F.W. Sobukwe

          Win you sound like an a bitter ex-pat, basing your point on one book which was most likely written from a biased point of view rather than a factual one by another bitter and mangled ex-pat. Nacklacing was not sanctioned by Mandela nor by the ANC, it was used a tool yes, but it existed before. What you refer to as The killing of Zulu was a in fact a not a tribal attack on the Zulu nation but a party called IFP (Inkatha Freedon Party) under Mangosuthu Gatsha Buthelezi who were being armed by the then Apartheid Gov to cause decent amongst the black nation thus disabling the struggle…you seem to omit that….

        • Jason

          Bit of a fidiet this Win

        • Jim bean

          Black south africans have enjoyed the high water mark. Your people only take from the whites. Where in the world does a small population of whites provide for the mass of your black people by paying over the odds for everything from tax to electricity to property rates! For gods sake you people are beyond useless its not even funny!
          What are you lot going to do oneday when the benevolant whites have all left? You will revert to your tribal instincts and go native within a generation. Just go and look at zim or mozambique. When the whites leave it always and I gurantee ALWAYS falls apart.
          Except your only chance at success was with a white baas.
          All your BEE cr a p and talk of democracy! Its all a big fat lie and you know it. You are destroying a once proud first world country one day at a time. Why is everything the blacks run a mess? Escom, SAA Police Transnet etc – all these were once the envey of parastatals around the world.
          ANC are a bunch of monkeys.

        • Justin

          Botswana, Namibia, etc…

          Where in the world does 13% of the population own 97% of the country… Wonder why they have all the jobs…

        • saiditall

          Just a lil note that Botswana is different. The head of state is not black, and the country has strong connections with a former colonial power, Britain. There is a population of about 1.6 million and half are have more important worries – they have aids. As for Namibia, there was nothing there in the first place, except sand, and they still have sand.

        • Cloete

          Its best to leave things unsaid if you do not know history than to let words that are untrue escape your lips, What do you mean in Namibia there was nothing? What happen to the diamond, Uranium, copper and all the aqua culture?

        • saiditall

          OK Sorry. I see captains of industry flocking to stake their claim in the vibrant and resourceful part of the world. A pinnacle of modern Africa where the diamonds and the uranium and the sand and the the sand makes for worthwhile investments.
          “All the aqua culture?” What do they mainly grow there – Dessert Lillies? How about some cash crops? Or even timber? And maize – to feed the nation? OK So, besides the very localized Orange river. And maybe the coastal belt. Or maybe somewhere near the Caprivi strip. It’s water % of area is considered “negligible”. Population is a staggering 2 million. There is not much of anything there to get excited about, except, possibly, you. It has always been a dessert, and nothing much happens there, does it?

        • Pretorius

          diamond, Uranium, copper and all the aqua culture belongs to the Brits.

        • Justin

          Well, the majority of botswana is what you would call “black” and they have had the vote and voted someone in, no matter what his or her colour of skin. Thus, still the people’s representative. And the countries are not a mess. Which is the point that I was raising…

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namibia
          In 2013, global business and financial news provider, Bloomberg, named Namibia the top emerging market economy in Africa and the 13th best in the world.

          Botswana has also had democractic elections since 1966. And it is still doing well. Again, a “black” majority country that has democratic elections and still going strong.

          In fact, only when democracy was instituted and the right to live without racial discrimation was passed, did the country begin to come into its own.

          So again, my point has been made to disprove the statement that within one generation all “Black” countries revert to a state of tribalism, as per Jim Bean above, to whom I replied.

          Again he was proved wrong to say that the only hope of success was a white baas and you own replies are therefore rendered redundant and foolish. Racist as well, but I guess that was already apparent.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana
          Botswana was one of the poorest countries in Africa when it gained independence from the United Kingdom in 1966, with a GDP per capita of about US$70. Botswana has since transformed itself, becoming one of the fastest-growing economies in the world to a GDP (purchasing power parity) per capita of about $14,000,[1]and a high gross national income, possibly the fourth-largest in Africa, giving the country a modest standard of living.[6] The country also has a strong tradition as a representative democracy.

        • saiditall

          Agreed Justin. I have a soft spot for BW because it is the only country in Africa, I have been to, that never blamed anyone for their misfortune. The have had their problems, but they got them sorted. There is not much industry or mining (a little diamonds here and coal there), but nothing to attract major investment, and yet investment floods in. The people are friendly and peace loving and not politically riled up. And the currency is performing better than the best economy in Africa. It does anger me when there is a great deal of jealousy inflicted on the Batswana. Mugabe being one and his sidekick, Malema. Have no doubt both have thought about invading that country

        • saiditall

          Oh yes and that little word seems to have missed my glance. RACIST !! I am not too sorry if you mention racist, as this is who I am – white – and if I have any opinion, being white, is considered racist. I really dont mind, cos I am proud of who I am, and therefore proud of being racist. Are you black and therefore, can I call you “Indigenous”

        • Justin

          they moderating my reply.

          if it ever get moderated, you will note that I apologise. You’re right, that comment of racism should not have been directed at you. It was uncalled for and undeserved, I was in the wrong.

          You may by all means call me indigenous, I was born here. So were my folks, for many generations.

          I would consider those of Dutch descent, from way back, also to be considered indegenous.

          I also will state that I believe that classifying oneself, or any one else, on the basis of pigmentation, is racist. I would no more call you “white” than I would call myself or “Black” or “Coloured” or “Indian” or “non-white”.

          I can however, trace my forebears, through many generations to Ireland, Scotland, Japan, Malaysia and of course, Africa.

          What does that make me, hopefully human and not a group catergories by my pigmentation or lack thereof.

        • saiditall

          No problem :>)

        • Justin

          Thank you, that is very gracious of you in the face of my boorish behaviour.

        • Pretorius

          Most of the land in South Africa is owned by British and Amarican Mining companies hope they give all the land back to mandela before he dies

        • Pretorius

          That connection should be stopped the only reason for the connection is A grade meat export to Britain bought with worthless pounds. Briitish parasites milking africa and the rest of the world for recources. I heard from my reliable source that all brits living in britain does’nt even work, they live on grands from the goverment, is that true ?. Bloody spineless Brits

        • saiditall

          “worthless pounds?” Strongest currency on earth. Wonder why? Must be better than the US$ – so they must be less spineless, and the rand, even less spineless. Then the Zim Dollar – the most spineless of all currencies. The brits maybe milking africa, but nothing in comparison to the africans themselves.

        • Pretorius

          The strength of currency is determined by the international community: international community = Britain and America off course their currency will be more that ours how else are they going to milk africa for recources. The less our currency the more they benefit.

        • saiditall

          Who is milking Zimbabwe? An african who has a great dislike for UK and USA. Who is milking SA? The africans. And anyway, if you are seen as a cow, then expect to get milked.

        • Justin

          I was under the impression that you and Pretorius were Africans?

          I agree that our currency must be made stronger, but more importantly, (and this is the point that GEAR missed) that all the people should be made able to produce in the economy first.

          Strengthen and empower the people, get them to the place that they can be more than just manual labour, and then we can look at the economy. We tried it the other way, and it was a failure…

        • saiditall

          If one were to make the Rand stronger, it has to have a perceived wealth. COSATU have always wanted a weak currency (why I have no idea – but think that if you have weak rand, exports become better valued. But all imports go up, including fuel, raw materials. ) This government is transferring too much overseas, ie buying dollars, euros, that the rand become worthless. But try and tell all those with their fingers in the cookie jar.
          I suppose I am african, cos I was born in africa, but beginning to regret that too.
          And, gee, I am really beginning to dislike that word “empower”. Just another term for “gimme”

        • Justin

          Empower should not mean a hand out, this sense of entitlement is wrong. People should not expect to be given things, however, they should have the right to be granted the opportunity to do things.

          And that is what I mean by empower, not given, but granted opportunities to do.

        • Boerewitman1

          The whites got the brains, sunshine

        • Justin

          Therefore you are saying that you are not white???

        • Pretorius

          Robert Moffat the British missionary from the anglican church. all the man did was spreading lies and putting the Boers in a bad light. eg he wanted the blacks to hate the Boers and to promote Brittish mineral interest. He also worked as a spy fot Milner Rhodes and Chamberlan witch has lead to the murder to tens of thousands of Mateble in the now Zimbabwe. No wonder there is so many people that hates the British i maen ask a Arab or a Asian.

        • Justin

          Sigh, I agree that the British did terrible things, it was part of the whole imperialistic movement and the notion that people are different , but hating the British now for the things that they did then is wrong. It is the same as if the “blacks” now hating the “whites” now for the things that were done by others to others.

        • Pretorius

          Ah what do i want from the Btitish. The land the Brittish stole from us, the British mines gold fields, de beers. Also they must pay for war crimes like the Germans did. The Blacks that where hired as mersanaries must pay for those war crimes Xhosas and zulus. OK then we want compensation for farms burned down and cattle lost and sold by the Brittish. All Brittish property in SA to be redistrubuted to white South Africans. The anglican church (romes catolics) to be removed from SA for spreading lies and promoting vioilance against Boers.
          All properties acuquired by Rhodes and his scavengers to be given back to the people he stole it from including the land of the matebele. That the english language be degraded in SA as a language of oppression.

        • Justin

          ROFLMAO

        • Justin

          So we can claim the same for the actions of your ancestors dispossession.

          http://www.sahistory.org.za/topic/timeline-land-dispossession-and-segregation-south-africa-1652-1799

        • Pretorius

          Why did Vervoerd build houses fot black people that helped the British in a war against us, f*ck them and the British ANC

        • Justin

          to give a form of legitamcy to his kicking them off the land that they were born in and denying them a place in the economy other that cheap unskilled labour

        • Pretorius

          What ? land we have given them plenty of land just that they could not develop the land and create their own countries and aconomy. No they where just sitting around crying aparthed

        • saiditall

          Gee Mate you are so full of it. Since you rock spiders took over SA, you invented a system that made the blacks hate you. In fact you called it apart-hate. That had nothing to do with the brits. And during wars lots of bad things happen, some of it was made up. Why cant you forget. The brits are not the enemy, but the Chinese, and the Russians are. You romans could have fought the chinks, and ruskies, if you had seen the brits as potential allies. But you didnt!! You would rather talk to a bunch of terrorists, and promptly hand over power. You now have lost your country, your heritage, your history, your pride – and then you blame the brits for this. You tell us all here, that your people are not wholly responsible for your own fate, and I will call you honest. Otherwise, stop crying in my beer.

        • Pretorius

          What the British has done to us still effects us today.We want arbitration, reconciliation, and affirmative action. We want the same from those black people who has assisted the Brittish in a war against us eg the Xhosas and Zulus. Futher more all mines owned by Gold Fields and de Beers Mining should be redistribated to Afrikaner famalies who has suffered the atrocities of the Brittish Zulus and Xhosas. Further more we would like the Queen of England to oppologise in Public wearing her crown juwels (diamonds and gold stolen from the Boers). Did you know that the crown jules represents the murder of 24000 children and and 5000 woman. British peolple should also be prohibeted to visit Game reserves (all game has been reserved by white boers
          ) during the Boer war the British has killed all the game they could see in order to try and strarv the Boers. Futher more all exports of food .meat and minerals from South Africa to Britian should be stopped.The Brits should pay for the atrocities inflicted by Cecil Rhodes in Zimbabwe for the murder of tens off thousand of Metabelies. All British mining copanies in Zimbabwe must be redistributed among the people of Zimbabwe.

        • Justin

          well, since you want all that then surely you agree that the khoi san and ixhosa also have the right to request redress from you…

          Your views, not mine…

        • aFreeHeartedPerson

          The most funny thing of all is how foolish South Africa has become the fact that apartheid happened many a moon back and the generations following after apartheid had ended still like to claim that they were under privileged yet they want to be racist to white people especially since I’m positive 99% of ANC Youth League that follows the idiotic JuJu who himself too was not even suffering in apartheid times was born after the apartheid regime.

          People want to talk about a world with peace and love everywhere but can’t even support each other, I mean when ANC has been voted for countless times with their “promises” to a better future I still don’t see a difference in Thembisa and other places

          and one thing that disgusts me the most is the fact that when you are at a traffic light and a person is begging for money who is it always that gives money and pities the people begging whether white or black beggars? I have seen only once in my entire life one black guy who now drives a new BMW 135i give a black beggar money and he can’t even have the heart to give it in his hands but throws it out the window on the floor to make the beggar look like a dog grovelling for scraps from its masters table. Really learn to be more supportive to your own race as well black people, yes I’m white and I know I’m not a racist hell I was in a boarding school from my grade 4-8 years and I was like the only white person there and after in college I was the only white person out of a thousand black people in PTA Town but its nice to know there I was not judged by my colour because we were young and oblivious to media exposing Bull*hit and fools like JuJu trying to destroy a country and to all you racists out there white and black go F*CK yourselves you are not differentiated by colour fools but you are differentiated by children of the Lord and the spawn of Satan sorry if this message is long but you people disgust me and its you racist f*cks white and black that will be the ruin of this country. Tell me from which year did apartheid end and which year were you born did you suffer in the apartheid era were you alive? best of all were you given the right to an education? were you given the right to a roof on your head? were you given the right to food and water in your belly? if yes then what the f*ck are you complaining about you racist pigs..

          Regards

          A disgusted person born in South Africa and raised to not be around judgement of race but only judgement of good and evil doings…Peace

          (come with your comebacks and try look deep down in your racist hearts to counter what I have stated above proving me wrong I want to see it you can even email as I wont come back to this disgusting racist infested post my email address is as follows if you want to contact me darksiders123456@gmail.com)

          And any racist comments to this will just be shrugged off to the junk as you are scum and just looking for a nice little excuse to play with to try let yourself sleep at night by saying we suffered in the past and now have the right to do as we please even though we can take the job opportunities from others even though that other had 8 distinctions in matric but got cut loose because of colour and you white people that are racist when we should be living in a peaceful world where love and harmony is all around us,

          with compassion and kindness and most of all to fu**ing stop living in the past and learn to move on… Tell me do you see Mandela becoming a madhead after suffering in a prison for 30 years? you so called black and white pricks don’t even know half the meaning of suffering and pain actually not even a inch of a million. You claim to praise and love Mandela but you can’t even follow in his footsteps to try make this country a wonderful place where we will have moved on from racism…seriously it’s time to grow up people and get a life and make this country an example to all over the world that life is about good and evil not colour like everything is based currently in South Africa.

          I really hope that people will finally learn to move on I’m sure I will get a chance to see it since I’m only 22 years old but it will be a dissapointment to see this country go into ruins as we have such beautiful views and things in our country that makes me know there is a God out there.

        • Justin

          and what were the lies that he spread? Where is the proof that he worked as a spy?

          In fact, where in any of your allegations is evidence tendered?

        • Pretorius

          Proof can be found in several history books. Or just read some books of Wilbur Smith.

        • Justin

          *shocked face*

          BOL

          Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha

          ahhhhh

          hehehehehehehehe

          oh, my stomach hurts.

          I must find Wilbur Smith’s peer reviewed academic writings…

          Hold it, just wait, the whole thing about British oppression is wrong. J K Rawling’s said that it was not the British that oppressed, but the Dementors that caused the suffering at the urgings of He who must not be named.

          Bra, you need to find Harry and get revenge…

        • Pretorius

          Brittish world war against farmers with muskets. Word war ? Brittish, Autraltions, New zealanders, Scottish, irish, Turke, Americans alltogether more that a million soldiers against 40000 farmers. Oh thats without counting the Zulus Xhosasand sothos The brittish had cannons machineguns is that not a war crime mm ?

        • Justin

          not what we were talking about but ok, subject change.

          What about musket fire against people armed with bows and arrows, at best, and leather shields and spears.

          What about forcing peaceful people off their land.

          Is that not a war crime mm?

          http://www.sahistory.org.za/topic/timeline-land-dispossession-and-segregation-south-africa-1652-1799
          (they use references to academic works, but the idiots, not one reference to the academic works of Wilbur Smith, don’t they know the best academic authorities?)

        • Pretorius

          Yes that was the brittish that forced the blacks of thier land. Or whre you refering to the Boers who did thiey force of their land i’m not acquainted with that history

        • Justin

          sigh, guess you never went to the link, to the comment that you are actually replying to, that shows the history of dispossession. I try to back up my comments with evidence that does not come from a fictional paperback…

          here is the link again http://www.sahistory.org.za/to

        • Pretorius

          Obviously you only take sides with the Brits and the black British ANC. Ive read almost every Boer war book in the library some written by Boers and others by Brits who where actually hee during the Boer war and in general they all tell the same story and that is that the Brits are responsible for apartheid.

        • Pretorius

          There is the Queen of clubs, harts, spades, diamonds then there is the Queen of thieves the queen of England

        • Justin

          sigh, its obvious you only listen to yourself. If you bothered to read anyone else’s comment, you would have seen that I am against the ANC…

          And you would have sen that I presented evidence, which you just ignore, without presenting any evidence in return.

          But maybe I should try your tactics.

          I have read every book in the entire world and invented a time machine, and having gone back in time to see first hand the events, I can tell you that you are totally wrong…

        • Pretorius

          What evidance are you refering to, if i could i would send you a couple of books to read. And what evidance did you supply me with ? mm

        • Justin

          the freaking links and articles on which I base my view… oh, and J K Rawlings…

        • Pretorius

          And where do you get the information that whites own 97% of the land ? mm 97% of the land belongs to British mining companies

        • Boertjie

          Justin
          Why are you wondering? A simple answer is that 13% of whites, no 0.5% of whites can provide for 99.5% of blacks even while they are murdered by blacks which is an extreme majority. The whites is a great nation compared to mandela and mugaap, really are they not?

        • Justin

          Just sayings it easy to have a job when your “people” own all the businesses and look out for each other.

          I would also disagree with your racist viewpoint, but then again, so would most moral intelligent people, would they not?

        • mars

          I wonder if Macedonia and Romania is also ruled by blacks

        • Ikem

          You can go back to Holland if you dont like it…Dutch!

        • Ian

          You are beyond a moron of note by paying tax/electricity/rates when blacks are not paying anything and simply taking away from whites. Besides, whites must be beyond stupid to allow others to just take away from them. Whites ran South Africa for decades and it was a mess that could only survive by institutionalizing violence , murder and torture of blacks. Rather than listening to your foolish rants, here is a solution that is fit for clever fools like you. : 1. Start by not paying your electricity. 2. Stop paying your car licence disk (call it road tax). 3. Stop paying your water bill.

        • Zimbaba

          still the zimbos have their land, go back netherlands, sons of thieves, murders and hooligaans

        • Pretorius

          What struggle how did the blacks struggle please define the word struggle to me. Or do you mean the stuggle of bringing up your children from your twenty wives. Or maybe you mean the struggle of white taxpayers losing their hard earned money to support and feed the children of your twenty wives.

        • Tsotsi

          Utter garbage, The National party never armed anyone.
          And while we are on the subject apartheid is a word coined by the UK guardian tabloid, It was adopted By Hendrik Verwoed who thought it sounded cute in an interview the Hollander Verwoed had with them. I’m sick of hearing lies, I was instrumental in the turn around in South Africa. At die Groot Indaba, the three paramount chiefs of the only South African tribes Zulu, Xhosa and Pondo, the national party never prescribed to any of the tribal leaders. They were trying to get South African blacks to work for white companies. Under a British governor they had on control over the countries police, army or export import all require governor approval.
          Sabata Dalindyebo demanded white men be kept away from taking advantage of black women, and Xhosa chief Kaiser Matanzima demanded training & job reservation combined with independent government of traditional homelands and access to training. Buthalezi demanded schools and fully independent states, removal of all brit segregation,
          sirens sounding at 6PM to get blacks of the streets.
          Only after Eric Louw kicked the British out were they able to exercise an control, they built 12000 schools
          in tribal areas to start the first ever black education in South Africa. Apartheid was a British invention it was used in an attempt to get back the jewel in their crown. They finally organised it via MI6 sleeper agents in the ANC, Mandela, & Rhamaphosa, both are on the MI6 payroll in Whitehall London.

        • Boerewitman1

          YES

        • Hermes Mda

          Holihlahla took responsibility for the invention of the famed necklace, even his sport stadiums are styled to remind thi ose who forget who to vote for Winnie was to busy reporting to the bureau for state security, or burying the victims of her football club or the ANC. He also gave the order to open fire and kill dozens of unarmed ZULU’s protesting the slaughter of Inkata Freedom party politicians. His given name is Holihlahla and it means whats yours is mine but whats mine is my own. The name Nelson was given to him by his English MI6 Handlers who took it from a left wing tabloid newspaper. Neither him nor the ANC had the slightest bit of influence on betraying his own people. The ANC is a UK Tanzanian terror group of May Mau infamy, financed by the Harold Mc Millan’s British labour government after he made his winds of change are blowing over Africa, he meant the 60 million pounds in arms and ammo he donated to the Tanzanian ANC to destabilise, first East Africa, Central Africa, and South Africa

        • JRW

          Nelson was NOT estranged from Winnie, his second wife, whist in prison…he divorced her after he was released from prison. He got married again shortly thereafter.

        • Boertjie

          Hi no Adampie, you are missing the point, Mandela is the terrorist we are talking about.

        • dipak

          KOTZE??? you live where? Did you run away?? Wim? That’s VIM, eh? so predictable!!

        • Wim Kotze

          Looking for a place to squat?

        • Justin McBride

          Nothing new here, nothing also that says the people war was not justified in light of the fact that more than 20 years peace protest brought zero changes in the stance of the gov

        • WarthogARJ

          This is 99% wrong.
          Mandela was only given the option of leaving prison near the end of his time there.
          And he would have had to say he announced terrorism.
          Which implied that he HAD been a terrorist.
          Which he was not.
          It was politically expedient to remain in prison and work towards a full democratic resolution of affairs.

          He did not slaughter Zulus at Shell House. There was a massive Zulu political march that diverted to Shell House, and was allowed to do so by the SAP. When it got near Mandela told the guards they could be armed with guns. My friend who worked for the Weekly Mail was there to see it: and was taken to court to testify about it. They fired over the crowds heads to try to get them to back off, but people in the crowd fired back.

          Winnie Mandela did lots of bad things when he was in prison and was not under his control. And he did divorce her when he could.

          South Africa is very lucky that it had him. Too bad the legacy did not continue.

        • Wim Kotze

          Agreed, you are 99% wrong. How many of the Shell House shooters were arrested, and why not? Could it be because your messia prohibited the police from doing their duty? Those bullets “over the crowds heads” were pretty accurate. Of course 19 corpses is a mere bagattle when the messia is concerned, but then Mandela also admitted to sanctioning acts of terror from prison, and he also came of scott free..
          Futhermore, Mandela was asked to renounce violence as political instrument, and he declined because it was contrary to ANC policy. (Remember “operation Vula”.) Nice try, but your semantics does not cut it.

        • Tracey Nixon

          Wim, at the time of the Inkatha violence (you’re not forgetting Inkatha, are you? The armed men who marched on Shell House?) I was working in Johannesburg and in Soweto. I had to shelter children in schoolrooms as they hid under their desks, as Inkatha Impis walked past, armed to the teeth. I watched as they wet themselves in fear. The Shell House massacre was NOT one-sided. I watched as bodies were removed from the street – innocent bystanders killed by Inkatha.

          You have issues with Mandela? Fine. Just make sure you put blame where it belongs. He is an icon of freedom and he is an icon of the struggle. He is and always will be our Madiba.

        • Louisa Solomon

          Amandla!

        • Tracey Nixon

          Awethu!

        • phef

          And i’m sure you take black coffee too…

        • Pretorius

          I realy wish the blacks had amandla then they did’nt need the whites to feed them. Shame poor blacks

        • praise

          Were the blacks not eating before the Whites came to Africa?

        • Wim Kotze

          Your anecdotal evidence conflict with reports of the time. You may want to Google the London Sunday Times article of 3 April 1994 or Judge Robert Nuggent report on the matter. Since neither sources are Dutchmen they may be believeable to you. Both cornfirm that the Zulus were unjustifiably shot by ANC guards and that your icon refused the police entry to Shell House to investigate the crime. Their accounts speak volumes for his immoral political oportunism. But then again the messia can not be judged by ordinary mortals, particularly not by dutchmen. So tell us about Sharpville but suppress Quattro,Shell House and Marikana.

        • Tracey Nixon

          The blame was not placed on Mandela but on ANC leadership. (And it’s Nugent, not Nuggent).

          This isn’t about Marikana either. And by Quattro did you mean Cato?

        • Wim Kotze

          Pleased to hear that you know about Nugget(sic).
          Who was the leadership and who prohibited the police from entering? Moreover, Mandelas chosen son in that leadership, cropped up again in the Marikana saga. “Aan jou vriende word jy geken”, we say in Afrikaans.
          Quattro as in Quattro, Angola, the other dirty little secret the messia did not want to know about, as was the case with Katiza Cebekulu.

        • PW

          Wim, jy is buite orde!! hoekom praat jy so veel KAK?? Hou jou bek, Moeskond!! Jy is is n VUILBEK!! VARK!!!

        • Wim Kotze

          Ironie of net ‘n Bantoe?

        • Justin McBride

          Ahhhh, so it is merely racism on your part Wim….

        • gail001

          Can someone tell
          me why people with low IQ’s- like you – ALWAYS resort to being Potty Mouths?

        • Shaunie

          You keep on referring to them as the Zulus,i will correct you again until you get it right,it was the IFP,remember the ANC also has and always had Zulus amongst them,right!

        • taps

          I was at Shell House that day… VIM!! where were you??

        • Wim Kotze

          In Moscow.

        • saiditall

          Hey TAPS, So how many weapons were at Shell house, and why did your leader not allow police in to do their job? Did you murder those protestors? Shame on you

        • Justin

          Wim, your facts are wrong, as you know, judging from the South African name and nick you use, those people applied for amnesty in the Truth and reconciliation, so don’t try to obscure the facts. Madiba also spoke openly about it, and acknowledged that he gave the security the order to defend Shell House, even if they had to shoot to kill. He did this publicly in 1995 already.

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mandela-why-i-gave-shoot-to-kill-order-158538

          As you know, being a South African, those people were granted amnesty.

          So, yes, they did go through due process.

          Also, in the light of the evidence, they would have been able to claim self defense.

          Even the apartheid police forces at the time, as per their transcripts, admitted that the the march was violent and that the crowd marching had several shooting instances.

          A reporter, an eyewitness, also claims that the marchers had opened fire on shell house, police had ran away.

          http://mg.co.za/article/1995-06-09-shell-house-counter-attack-that-was-deadly

          ANC guards then counter attacked, having been forewarned of the attack and bringing suitable armament.

          Also, Nelson did refuse to renounce the armed struggle, and rightly so, why should the oppressor be the only ones allowed to use violence. Its ever bully’s dream that the victim will merely accept the bullying and never fight back.

          I am not a current ANC supporter, their entitlement and graft record sucks, but I despise even more people like you that refuse to accept that the oppressed had a innate right to equality, and they should be allowed to fight for it.

          And just to correct you yet again, Mandela did not admit to acts of terror, those are your word. What he did admit to was to sanction the arm struggle, and good for him. If we had kept silent and merely accepted the abuses, like abusers all over, you would merely have continued in your behavior.

          Why should the oppressed make concessions in their struggle for freedom while the oppressor is allowed to continue all his operations.

          And again, to properly explain matters, Madiba did announce a cease fire and stopping of all hostilities, when the SA government came to the negotiating table and unbanned all political parties.

          Again, it is for theoppressing party to stop its oppression before you can ask the oppressed to stop their struggle.

          otherwise, what are you asking, the ANC had to give up it guns and allow only the NP government to commit violence?

        • Wim Kotze

          It is not clear which facts you refer to but if I have to choose between the version of a Duvenhage, that became a Du Venhage, and that of Judge Richard Nugent I would prefer the latter. Judge Nugent found that the guards (who received amnesty) contention was “no more than a makeweight wich was fabricated after the event to justify the shootings.” Clearly his findings put a question mark over what you call “due process” of the TRC.
          You purport to be a fellow with a keen sense for social justice, but it is unfathomable that you deityfy a person, who according to own admission, ordered those shootings. It is probably to be traced back to the spirit that brought about the Black Circuit of 1812.

        • Justin McBride

          Jeepers, Wim, can you kept to one spelling of this alleged judge you keep quoting, I have searched for references to these quote you make, and can not find any. Can you perhaps provide a source for your comments, or are you making them up as you go along?

          But I can understand you not wanted to choose the version of an actual eyewitness, after all, it may not accord with your view of events, so why should things likes facts get into the way of the argument you are trying to make.

          But maybe I can help you with some of your argument, or let the Nelson Mandela center of Memory,

          The Judge you are looking for is Mr Justice Robert Nugent.

          And looking at the Nelson Mandela Centers report, you are right, it does look suspicious. Funnily enough, it is the Nelson mandela center that displays the problems with the official ANC stance and the TRC findings.

          However, direct eyewitness does still have credibility. And Nugent himself says he was not in possession of sufficent information. But his reasoning remains sound.

          Still, the rest of what you say is still invalid, just saying…

          and I think you missed the point of the TRC and being granted amnesty…

          I note that you did not look at my other points and will therefore accept that you understand why people are entitled to fight for their freedom.

          Or as William Wallace would say, “Freeeeeeeeeeeedom”

        • Wim Kotze

          You should read more of people like Anthea Jeffrey and RW Johnson, and a little less ANC Today. Jeffrey’s book is Peoples War. You may learn something about your socalled armed stuggle.

        • Justin McBride

          Nothing new here Wimmie, I was one of the people that believe that the ANC hijacked the struggle from people that were before, like the Black Consciousness Movement and the PAC. They were good political manaouverist, but slow in the stuggle.

          Sharpvillie was organised without them, but they were quick to jump on the bandwagon to make use of the political fall out.

          That being said, there was every reason to start an armed struggle. Unless you think that 20 years of non-violent protest being met with nothing but more restrictions is a good indicator that you must continue in ineffectual behaviour.

          Also, you should know that academically, Anthea Jeffrey has recieved a big backlash about the veracity of her article.

          However, even if we accept what she says as true, there is nothing there that states that apartheid was great and there was no need to oppose it. Merely that the ANC hands were not clean and that they resorted to methods that years after the fact might be considered unsavoury.

          It certainly does not state that there should have been no opposition to the gov, nor that there should be only non-violent opposition.

          in fact, it makes a fairly good case as to the need for a people war and that the peoples war was employed to great effect…

        • Owen Joseph Bourdilon

          wish there was more eluciadation on this light u just dropped for beta assimilation…

        • Justin

          what do you need to be made clear?

        • Boerewitman1

          The TRC was a witch hunt, tit for tat. We will show you.!!

        • thula

          Thank you for that Justin. I feel that such information should be share as it seems that so many people like Wim have the wrong idea about what happened.

          I am not a supporter of the ANC, but I feel that people underestimate the stand that Nelson Mandela and others took to promote reconciliation when many wanted retaliation. I often hear stories as a young black South African that make me cringe because they happened not so long ago. The man spent most of his life in prison and I don’t think I could have endured that much and forgiven so easily. And for that he has more than earned my repect.

          He has led by example. No man is perfect, history has taught us that much. If there were men with half as much wisdom in the ANC today this country would be far better than it is right now.

        • Boerewitman1

          Answer just ONE (1) question. Who started the “war” in South Africa. The anc. They were such, and still is, a bunch of cowards, they use children to do their dirty work. Then they use bombs to attack people, but the most victims were the black people.
          Why do I get the feeling, that even the brittish, when they established apartheid in this country, could not trust the black community at all. that is why they killed thousands of Zulu’s and Xhosas. They killed the Boere, burn down their home, destroy their crops, killed their livestock and put their women, black and white in consentration camps, to die. The brittish even went as far as to put glass in the womens food. The brittish steal this countries minerals, and its riches. good example, look at the huge diamond in the throne of the king/queen.
          Then they, brittish realised that they caused trouble in this country. Who implemented the land act law of 1913? the Boere? No, the brittish. They ran from this country, giving them “independance” When Dr Verwoerd wanted to remove this seperate development curse, which the brittish brought over this country, Verwoerd were murdered by Tsafendas.

        • Justin McBride

          So you don’t think that trying to enslave people and denying them human rights is a cause for war..

          Oh wait, its only if that does not happen to you or yours..

          so my answer is that the war was caused by the people that systematically denied humans rights and exploited another group, no matter what “race” or nationality they were

        • Shaunie

          So what led to the Anglo-Boer war?

        • Boerewitman1

          Greed and world power from the brittish.

        • hahanono

          you’re one of the uneducated racist idiots on here. At least some of the other racists on here are educated. but you.. nada.

        • Wendy

          If you want to shout your mouth off about the British people at least have the courtesy to spell it correctly!

          AH! Our sons had to do their time in the defence force when most South Africans were not obliged to, which means, coloured, black and Indian , about time you got a life and put the past behind you.

        • Boerewitman1

          There is a reason why I purposely use the wrong spelling, that is how much I think of the brittish, They dumped South Africa into this rubbish, which they caused. I was a soldier in the 70 ‘s , myself, and I am proud of it. Therefor, nobody can say that it was only the other races were oppressed, even us, whites were forced to do the army thing, whether we like it or not, however I will not rest until the brittish apologizes to the people of South Africa for their otrosities against the people of this country. the wrong people get the blame, but the bleddie brittish sit there and even go as far as to sanction South Africa for their, brittish, f@ck ups.

        • Mckay

          Gentlemen, I opine that we better allow history and posterity to be the judge on the Mandela issue. It will be worthwhile I believe that no matter which part of the divide you choose and have reason to align with, having known the truth and living in our prime, we should
          think, act and work by whatever morale belief we hold, to contribute our very honest best in transforming the little corner where we are and the world at large into a better, friendly and peaceful place to live in where justice, equality, respect for individuals and right to personal opinion will be the true order of the day.

        • Justin

          Very well said Mckay

        • Boerewitman1

          I feel so sorry for you, you are so miss informed, you had to go back and get your facts right.

        • Justin McBride

          Out of context, not part of this reply.

          but at least I have the decency to check my facts, and willingness to point them out where I have erred.

          And to be utterly fair to me, I posted the change of opinion in the same post as the mistake that was made,

          Wish we could all do the same.

        • thula

          Why are you crucifying Mandela for his methods of fighting for democracy and not the oppressors. You fail to acknowledge the many efforts that were made to end apartheid peacefully.

          The government was not afraid to murder black people in there thousands. Many of my ancestors were involved in the war against the British and no one talks about how they were gunned down and yet the moment lack South Africans start fighting back its labelled terrorism.

          The truth of the matter is that white people will never understand the hardships that existed in South Africa by black South Africans. And I’m am not saying this to be offensive. We were literally treated like animals and forced to live like slaves in the country of our birth. If you call Mandela a terrorist than what was the Government? Are you saying that they are the innocent victims?

        • Wim Kotze

          Please stick to facts. No white SA Government in living memory “murder black people in there thousands” as you claim. Infact, the thousands were murdered by Mandela’s ANC, as reported by the TRC. The same TRC reported that less than a thousand were killed by goverment forces between 1948 and 1989.
          Yes, I am well aware of the colonial wars and its heavy toll, but I wonder how many blacks know that the British starved 28000 Boer woman and children to death in concentration camps during the Anglo Boer war.
          I am not aware of any blacks kept as slaves for most part of 2 centuries by white South Africans, although I have read that slavery was practiced amongst the Batswana untill fairly recently.
          Since I don’t know where you were born I can’t comment except to say that you should have reported your ill treatment to your chief and his tribal council.

        • Justin McBride

          BOL @ Wim. I guess people dying of because of the inhuman practices against them practised by the gov does not count in your eyes.

          You don’t need to shoot someone to kill them.

          malnutrietion, lack of housing etc was more than enough to kill millions of the oppressed. And yes, that was the direct result of gov action.

          The British was really scummy with regards to its treatment of non-british, but I guess you would look with admiration for that attitude, as you certainly can not seem to understand that the oppressed matters had the same view of the NP gov as you have of the British, for the same reasons, unjustified oppression

          You however, just seem to want to be the oppressor and blame the oppressed when they resisted.

        • Justin McBride

          So Wim, answer this, was the Boere entitled to their armed resistance against the goverment at the time…

          Or should they merely have peacefully protested and continue to allow the British oppression.

          If yes, then you are a hypocrite, as you expected the ANC to give up the armed struggle, why???

        • Wim Kotze

          If your analogy refers to the Anglo Boer you should note that it was British aggression against 2 sovereign states. Britan was definetly not the “goverment of the time”, as you say. The outcome of that war was that the Afrikaners were forced into a unitary state. Thus today we have vastly increased black population ruling over a people with whom they have very little in common. But thats democracy, and as the successor of your icon says democracy means the majority have more rights than a minority.
          It was exactly this situation that Verwoerd wanted to avoid with independent homelands. I find it curious that Mandela, and his cohorts at the time, were all staunch supporters of Stalin, and by implication of the “stans” that made up the USSR, but resisted a similar solution in South Africa.
          And if you want to speak of hypocracy you need not look any further than Mandelas co-conspiritor/handler at Rivonia, Athur Goldreich, whose claim to fame is his purported participation in Haganah, the organization known for its brutal expulsion of Palestinians. It is enough to cast a shadow on all the hype around Mandela.

        • Justin McBride

          The States were set up after British rule, therefore, were uprisings according to the British. Just like the struggle to gain a vote in their homeland and end oppressive rule were considered uprising by you….

          By the way, that mefecan defecanse crap that you guys preached in the apartheid schools have been largely discredited…

          The same stance was taken by the Jews who formed Israel, “There were no Palestinians in Israel when we formed< this was empty land"

          Its crap with Israel and Crap with SA.

          Athur Goldreich was pro -Zionist and supported Haganah, and you have my full agreement, that he is a hypocrit. Unfortunately, that does not make your hyprocracy any less.

          To Arthurs credit, he has now come to the following position.

          "According to The Guardian, Feb. 2006, Goldreich was living in the city of Herzliya. "There was a time when he believed the young Jewish state might provide the example of a better way for the country of his birth. As it is, Goldreich sees Israel as closer to the white regime he fought against and modern South Africa as providing the model. Israeli governments, he says, ultimately proved more interested in territory than peace, and along the way Zionism mutated.

          "Goldreich speaks of the 'bantustanism we see through a policy of occupation and separation', the 'abhorrent' racism in Israeli society all the way up to cabinet ministers who advocate the forced removal of Arabs, and 'the brutality and inhumanity of what is imposed on the people of the occupied territories of Palestine'. 'Don't you find it horrendous that this people and this state, which only came into existence because of the defeat of fascism and Nazism in Europe, and in the conflict six million Jews paid with their lives for no other reason than that they were Jews, is it not abhorrent that in this place there are people who can say these things and do these things?' he asks."[4]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Goldreich

          Actually, most of the activists were more Lenin or Trotsky…

          I suppose you would find it better to have small minority ruling over the vast majority and denying them human right, a vote, land, certain top level jobs, etc…

          Please do NOT try to compare the position of a "white" in SA today as the same as the position of a "black" under your Verwoed or the NP.

          And don't get me wrong, I also regard the ANC as political opportunist who stole the limelight of the political struggle from the other organistations, such as PAC, the Black Consciousness Movement, etc…

          However, the "People Struggle" was still justified, in light of what they were facing. Mandela did a lot to stabilise this country, when it could have gone a lot worse, and as such, despite the political sell out to Capitalism and allowing power to remain in the hands of the wealthy, he deserves respect.

        • Alida

          Justin, you are wrong about the states being set up after British rule. The ZAR and the Orange Free State were sovereign states and the British only became interested in them after diamonds and gold were discovered, therefore they were in it for the money and they were prepare to do anything to get hold of it, even making war against women and children. Did you know that apart from the 27 000 white women and children, more that 14 000 black men, women and children also died in concentration camps set up by the British during the Anglo Boer War? Talk about killing blacks in their thousands!

        • Justin McBride

          Yes, the British were terrible people, fully in agreement, however, the gist of people arguments, like Wim, is that they were allowed to be like that, as they were the state in power. Any resistance to them can be called terrorism.

          Lets accept for the moment that they were sovereign states, does that mean that only if you have your own nation / state, that you are allowed to fight against oppression.

          that seems to be counter intuitive to me, I would have thought that in all systems of terrible oppression, you should be morally encourage to rebel against that oppression.

          The fact that the British were terrible does not allow the people that they oppressed to be terrible to others, and in this sense I am talking about both the “Boere” and the state of Israel. But I digress.

          according to Wiki
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_Wars , Britain annexed transvaal, hence it was the gov there….

          They also allowed the free state to be a republic and later annexed the area. So officially, they were the gov then. The “Boers” who renounced British sovereignty were therefore rebels against British rule and must be considered terrorist. They blew up lots of trains…

          The First Anglo-Boer War (1880–1881), was a rebellion of Boers (farmers) against British rule in theTransvaal that re-established their independence. The conflict occurred against the backdrop of the Pretoria government becoming increasingly ineffective at dealing with growing claims on South African land from rival interests within the country.

          The war was between the Transvaal Boers and the British.

          When the British annexed Transvaal in 1877 the Boers were angered.

          In 1877, the Pedi attacked the Boers of Transvaal, and Boers claimed the British had not adequately assisted them.

          The Transvaal population included many who were in debt to Cape bankers, perhaps adding to negative British perception of the Boers.

          The British wished to bring Transvaal by force into a union, which furthered chances of war.

          The British defeat by Zulus in 1879 at the Battle of Isandlwana had encouraged Boers to armed resistance.

        • Mappy

          Die meeste van julle klink soos n klomp rooi nekke wat gatkruip. Dit help nie met julle te stry nie.

        • Wim Kotze

          All indices confirm that the so called oppressed are worse of under the current regime than under the previous government, and those indices will also tell you that 20 years ago they were considerably better of than any other black ruled country. So who the hell care if infant mortality is higher and life expectancy is lower and they eat less, they are free and they have Mandela. Speaking of hypocracy…

        • Bij

          Really…all of them? can you name them all pls…pretty pls

        • Justin McBride

          Oh, I agree, the ANC has totally messed up and they have a lot to answer for.

          However, I can not agree that the position of the oppresses was better under the apartheid regieme.

          Where do you get your facts? Was it prehaps only the position of “blacks” that lived in “South Africa” and not the homelands??? Show me the links to your proof please.

          Lets see, under the apartheid regieme, people were denied a proper education, people were completely prolicticallty disenfranchised, they were not allowed a vote.

          People were separated from their families under the pass laws, and when that was repealed, the effect was still there as the work was still far away from where people actually resided.

          Top management jobs were reserved for “whites”.

          Pensions to “Blacks” consisted of R23 a month.

        • Just Clever

          Guys all I can say is under “Apartheid” people were denied proper education. Now every one gets substandard education in South Africa. REASON: uneducated people can’t reason nor question “Clever” people, so easy, deny proper education to every one and then some people in the ANC can be corrupt and blatantly lie and every body will agree. That’s why the whole of Africa is falling apart

        • Justin McBride

          Have to agree with you there 100%. I think that the ANC instituted the model C school, which basically requires the parents to contribute to the education, to keep the masses ignorant. What genius would expect to address the inequality of education by expecting the parents in the poor areas to try and provide a similiar education as can be given by parents in the rich neighbourhood.

          guess which neighbourhoods the ANC elite sends theiir children to.

        • Justin McBride

          http://childhealthcare.co.za/childhood-mortality/introduction-childhood-mortality/what-is-the-infant-mortality-rate-in-south-africa/

          Current infant mortality rate is 55 out of 1000. 5.5%

          Apartheid in the “homelands” 30% = 300 out of 1000.

          Considering that the vast majority of the “black” population was forced into the Homelands, I guess we have to go with those figures, which show that the infant mortality rate has dropped, not increased, from 30% to 5.5%

          Guess that your facts are wrong / made up
          http://africanhistory.about.com/od/apartheid/p/crossroads.htm

          For example, in rural areas, especially the homelands (or Bantustans), the infant mortality rate was around 300 per thousand (3 out of every ten, or 30%), whereas the mortality rate in Soweto, official townships, and the informal settlements around Cape Town (eg Crossroads) was down to approximately 40 per thousand (4 in 100, or 4%). Note that the equivalent infant mortality rate for whites in South Africa at that time was just under 1%

          Also look at http://www.sahistory.org.za/dated-event/world-health-organization-publishes-indictment-apartheid

          taken in 1975

          Date: 5 March, 1975

          The system of Apartheid was not only detrimental to the cultural, economic and emotional wellbeing of those on whom it was imposed , but also on the physical wellbeing of those who bore the brunt of it. This was shown by a study done by the World Health Organization in 1975. The report published on the 5th of March 1975 showed that Apartheid as a system through impoverishing its subjects, exposed many to physical ailments and deficiencies that could be avoided at minimal cost. This degradation was so extreme that there was a marked difference between the life expectancy of White South Africans and Black South Africans. Further, the infant mortality rate of Black South Africans outstripped the mortality rate of White South Africans. This was one of the many contradictions of the Apartheid system that eventually led to its fall.

          References:

          Health Implications of Apartheid in South Africa [ online], available at: disa.ukzn.ac.za [accessed on 22 February 2010]

        • Wim Kotze

          Why not just use the UN development index to be found at hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/ZAF.html instead of searching the web for suspect stories.
          Little gems from the statistics are a decrease in life expectancy from 61.5 in 1990 to 53.4 in 2012, more or less constant infant mortality rates, and a 4fold increase in maternal mortality rate for the same period. At least all those women were “liberated” when they died needlessly.

        • Justin McBride

          Oh, don’t get me wrong, the ANC has a lot to answer for in the they did not address the inequalities entrenched in the apartheid system, I could go on about the wrong choices made in education, wealth redistruibution, tender system etc, ….

          But the point remains this, their job was to redress THE INEQUALITIES AND OPPRESSION ENTRENCHED BY THE APARTHEID SYSTEM.

          and yes, they failed, however, pointing the finger at the failure of the ANC to address the previous injustices does not make such injustices any less. It does not make the sins of apartheid go away.

          And yes, Apartheid was the root cause of all of those racially divided inequalities. So much so that it needs a system to readdress it, and the ANC failed. No doubt, want to point fingers at the ANC for not doing good by the masses, I will be right there with you.

          But that still does not excuse the system that brought it all into being.

          and lets look at the UN charts, the green line respresents SA, look the overall human development trend is (despite the slump experienced by the slump experienced in 2004 – 2006) higher than the 1980’s your apartheid period. And it has never post 1993 dropped to the level of the Apartheid period.

          So thank you for pointing that out, as bad as the ANC has made it by failing to address the oppression resulted from apartheid rule, it has never once dropped to those apartheid era levels…

          A further problem exists with the data presented, as you should know, the subject group is of particular importance when looking at the results.

          These subject groups are for the mean of the whole of SA, which means that it incorporates all South Africans, and therefore can not be used to show just the “Black” life expectancy, which is different from the child health care stats which I pointed out. (why would you consider child health care and EBW healthcare to be suspect sites????)

          however, note the stats from 1980, on your site, which show a lot worse picture than when apartheid was crumbling int eh 1990’s.

          further, you did not mention education, which increased from almost zero, to the entire population.

        • Wim Kotze

          Either you don’t understand the Human development graph or you are cherrie picking results. You will note that in 1980 SA was slightly ahead of the world average, and increased that advantage untill 1996 where after it started to decline to a current level considerable below the world avarage. The same graph also indicates that SA was well ahead of sub Saharan Africa in 1980 and that grap is shrinking. Your remarks on education is just twaddle. SA always had higher school attendance, higher literacy and more graduates than any sub Saharan country, but now boast the last place of 140 countries for science and math. You should use more reliable sources so that you dont betray your ignorance as you do.

        • Justin McBride

          Wim, not just talking about “white” education here…

          Also, the stats from SA states that the current average life expectancy is age 60, and that is taking into account the AIDS epidemic.

          http://www.enca.com/south-africa/sa-life-expectancy-improve
          http://www.health24.com/Medical/HIV-AIDS/News/One-in-10-in-SA-HIV-positive-20130514

          the world health organisation has life expectancy at 57 / 60 http://www.who.int/countries/zaf/en/ for 2009.

          the infant mortality rate has dropped from 58 to 42 from 2000. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=sf&v=29

          and lastly, from the website that you quoted.

          Each year since 1990 the Human Development Report has published the Human Development Index (HDI) which was introduced as an alternative to conventional measures of national development, such as level of income and the rate of economic growth. The HDI represents a push for a broader definition of well-being and provides a composite measure of three basic dimensions of human development: health, education and income. Between 1980 and 2012 South Africa’s HDI rose by 0.9% annually from 0.570 to 0.629 today, which gives the country a rank of 121 out of 187 countries with comparable data. The HDI of Sub-Saharan Africa as a region increased from 0.366 in 1980 to 0.475 today, placing South Africa above the regional average. The HDI trends tell an important story both at the national and regional level and highlight the very large gaps in well-being and life chances that continue to divide our interconnected world. Learn more

          most reasonable people consider the gaps to be part of the apartheid legacy, (even the CIA considers it to be so (he first multi-racial elections in 1994 brought an end to apartheid and ushered in majority rule under an ANC-led government. South Africa since then has struggled to address apartheid-era imbalances in decent housing, education, and health care….https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sf.html) so yes, we have problems, but things are still better now. We can at least vote and not be oppressed due to pigmentation.

        • Wim Kotze

          Yes and one of those problems are that you can vote but you can’t read a simple graph.

        • Justin

          Bwahahahaha, nice avoiding of the issues raised Wim, I guess if you can’t respond to a topic, misdirection is the way to go :)

          nice try, but I am not raising to such a lame bait wimmie…

        • Justin

          Also, well done Wim for ignoring the parts where it was established that Apartheid brought those inequalities into being and avoiding that topic all together.

          Would also like to take this opportunity to note that the time that the life expectancy dropped was also the same time as the Aids pandemic which largely impacted on the life expectancy charts

          http://www.unaids.org/

          http://perspectivesinmedicine.org/content/1/1/a006841.full.pdf+#ref-7

          http://perspectivesinmedicine.org/content/1/1/a006841.full.pdf+

          according to HIVSA http://www.hivsa.com/static/hiv-aids-in-south-africa

          WHY DID SOUTH AFRICA’S AIDS EPIDEMIC GO UNCHECKED FOR SO LONG?

          The most rapid increase in South Africa’s HIV prevalence took place between 1993 and 2000, during which time the country was distracted by major political changes. While the attention of the South African people and the world’s media was focused on the country’s transition from apartheid, HIV was rapidly becoming more widespread.

          Although the results of these political changes were positive, the spread of the virus was not given the attention that it deserved, and the impact of the epidemic was not acknowledged. It is likely that the severity of the epidemic could have been lessened by prompt action at this time.

          So, not trying to get away that the ANC failed to properly address the inbalances created by apartheid, and they should have by now done so, but wanting to show you factors that had an impact on those stats

        • Boerewitman1

          Who implemented the “apartheid” system?

        • Justin

          Well, lets see, I answered several of your questions, and you avoided my one question directed at you?

          Nice sense of fairness there. Its obvious that you can not / will not defend your position or enter into a dialogue, so I will just chalk you up as another person reduced to pitiful attempts at misdirection and trying to avoid issues so that their glaring incompetencies at debate (and logical thought) is overlooked.

          However, just so that you can’t accuse me of avoiding your question (note, that as shown in your other post, that actually answering your question does not stop you from lying and claiming that I am avoiding you, so I don’t hold much hope of you NOT acting unscrupulously but, hey, as long as I do the right thing…).

          Apartheid, as official policy, and not de facto practice, was institutionalized in South Africa in 1948. At the time, the Nationalist Party was in power. Hence, apartheid started at that time.

          However, that is not to say there were not many systems like apartheid before that, and occuring elsewhere in the world.

          One only has to look at the USA , which institutionalized racism and worked it into their core identity. The British also had a system of racism that it ascriped to, in fact, it can be argued that all colonial powers were racist, as they ruled over people that had no shared identity with them in the belief that they had the right to do it.

          So apartheid, as such started in 1948 by the Nats, but racism and oppression was around a lot longer before that and spread world wide.

          All forms of racism and oppression is morally wrong, that is my firm belief. Including the black on black oppression, Mgube, Gaddaffi, etc, the “white on white” , Britain and Ireland, etc, the Islamic on Christian, (sudan) , the Christian on Islamic, (crusades) etc…

          I am against them all, however, that will most assuredly include apartheid and those that what to classify human being in terms of their pigmentation and want to nicely label people, such as stating, “they are like that because they are black, or white, or coloured or yellow blue or green….”

          As soon as your thinking starts like that, in my view, you are a racist. (and again, that is the general you, not you Boerewitman1, but if you think that the shoe fits, then lace that mother up and wear it (paraphrasing an quote attributed to Samuel L Jackson, at least on the internet)

        • Pretorius

          Justin: these resources were you getting your information from, is so adjusted and rewritten to suit Xhosa britittts interests. If you really take time to read you will discover that articles written on www sa history where manipulated in such a way that in discredits white Boers. In all of their writings you will only read on how wrong blacks were treated. There are no articles written on how white Boers were treated by blacks when they killed and murdered the Boers of their land.

        • Justin

          This from a guy who quotes Wilbur Smith as his historical source…

        • Pretorius

          Justin: Obviously you haven’t read any books written by Wilbur Smith, I can tell you that the man does research on the books that he writes. Take time and do some research on facts as to where Mr. Smith gets his information from, and you will find his research as factional and true. Unlike yourself who gets your info from www sa history, written by Xhosa orientated writers as to promote lies and no facts. Xhosas has no history in the Transvaal, Vrystaat, Natal except for theft murder of white men’s property. When madelas father, father first came to Pretoria he found that the city has already been built by the Boers. The first laborers on sa gold mines where imported Chinese because there were to little blacks living in the Transvaal. The reason you are so uninformed of the history of this country is obviously www sa history. I cannot see the purpose of your comments made on this website other than discrediting the Afrikaner Boer. But it is like my Father has once said, that the only way to change the mind of men is to present him with facts, but if a man’s thought cannot be changed by fact it’s as good as trying to teach a chicken on how to speak.

        • Justin

          Lol, still waiting for you to provide any facts at all. but I guess facts are not your strong point. Note, I used many more resources that just that one…

        • Justin

          And where have I discredited the Afrikaaner Boer, show me one example?

          Bet you can find plenty of examples of discrediting apartheid and any system of discrimination, and you personally,because you are bit of an idiot who refuses to deal in facts and instead spout opinionated drivel that you can not or refuse to defend with facts or logical argument.

          But discrediting the Afrikaaner Boer, come on… seriously, try reading what is written instead of jumping to insane conclusions or indulging in whimsical flights of fantasy.

        • Boerewitman1

          So by the way, what is your view about the so called killing of the white population of this country. I mean there is a saying that goes around were the black , or then certain elements in the black community say, and I quote, ” when Mandela dies, we gonna kill the whites like flies”. Please give me your view about a saying like this.

        • Justin McBride

          its terrible. Racism in all forms are wrong. Which is why I view apartheid as being wrong.

        • remola

          Hmm, interestingly enough the average age of the Black South African sky rocketed during the apartheid years. In fact the Afrikaner funding, building and staffing multiple hospitals throughout South Africa was the single highest contributor to the population jumps within the black population in Southern Africa.

          As for malnutrition, lack of housing……the housing crisis is much worse at the moment, and with a 54% unemployment under UNIVERSITY LEAVERS in SA, malnutrition is at an all time high.

          And let us just clarify something, if you go to Saudi Arabia right now and demand work, schooling, welfare, medical treatment, your own political platforms to insult their government and call them tyrants you would receive nothing except a lengthy jail term and possibly a death penalty. They would point out that you are a foreign national and deserving of nothing.

          The only true born in South Africa are the Xoi and San people, not Zulu’s, Xhosa’s, Pedi’s, Sotho’s etc. in fact all the Bantu tribes originated from central Africa, NOT SOUTHERN AFRICA.

          Before the 1922 miner revolts in the Transvaal the majority of the mining work was done by Afrikaners, Jan “Scumbucket” Smuts under the leadership of England started shipping in Cheap Black Labour from area’s outside of the Transvaal because the whites were costing too much as a work force, they could use black labour pay them next to nothing and work them to death. That is why the 1922 miners revolt started.

          BTW, I was reading earlier about the ANC Stalwarts with relevant educations, degree’s, and you know what is really interesting that all the blacks with Degree’s, doctor’s, lawyers had their education paid for by the Afrikaner government.

          I think if the Afrikaner had been more the tyrant and less the helper this country would have had a lot more whites and a lot less blacks these days.

          A week ago I went to the Johannesburg central police station and saw a sign up on a wall that said…

          “Dedicated to all the people who lost their lives in police custody before 1994″

          The sign then listed each person who had died’s name, all 67 of them.

          What is really interresting is that the otherday I read a newspaper article that said that more than 900 people currently die in police custody every year…EVERY YEAR.

          More universities were built during the apartheid years than since, in fact the government has not built one single university since 1994.

          More hospitals were built during the apartheid era than since, in fact the current government has not built a single hospital since 1994

          More schools were built during the apartheid era than since, in fact the current government has not really built a single school.

          The apartheid era South Africa produced more state jobs for blacks than for whites, and I know your going to call me out on that one so I’ll explain right away:

          Transkei, Ciskei, Kwazulu, Venda, Basotholand, Bobutothswana and each of the other home lands had full working civil services, each fully employed by people from their own tribes, same as the whites did.

          NO LETS BE CLEAR there is not ONE SINGLE THING THAT THE APARTHEID GOVERNMENT DID THAT WAS REALLY A VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND DECENCY.

        • Justin

          totally incorrect and baseless. There is plenty of proof that exists that there were indigenous people here before europeans came. Read it up…

          But of course, you will not do that as it will take away the fiction that this was empty land and therefore you could take what you wanted.

        • Pretorius

          Dr Verwoerd and those after them did not build the shacks the blacks have built it themselves. Millions of blacks coming from their home land where they forced of the whites, now demanding houses, free electricity, running water, hospitals and schools. All of these things coming from white tax payers. Meanwhile the whites also live in poverty, the white government even refused to give money for white orphanages. Billions of Rands of white taxpayers money just flowing into black poverties. The whole of Soweto and ninety percent off houses built there where paid for by white tax money. Meanwhile most whites didn’t even have their own houses. The tar roads leading to Soweto where build by whites. What did the blacks ever do for us the whites?

        • Shaunie

          But unfortunately for you the people have choosen who they want as their leader and there is not much you can do about it excerpt to go and vote during elections and hope & pray that there are enough people who support your point of view,by the way,gooood luck.

        • Boerewitman1

          But they attack the WRONG PEOPLE. They must attack the brittish, not the Boere that had a totally different view about this country. We were also murdered by the brittish. Thousands were killed.

        • Justin McBride

          So you saying that the “boere” did not oppress the black man???

          if the answer is no, BOY, you are severely delusional.

          if yes, then why should the ANC and other not resort to the armed struggle… ?

        • Boerewitman1

          First of all I am not a racist, i want to make it clear.Everywhere in the world somebody is getting oppressed by somebody. I didn’t say what happened in the past were right, however, who brought this country where it was before 1994? Who destroyed this country AFTER 1994? Nobody else than the ANC Government. It is not apartheid’s fault that there is crime, joblessness, theft, etc. No ways. If you are brave enough, you will admit that even with your so called apartheid, the reason for the failure of the present government, we had jobs, we had peace with each other, we played together, crime was virtually non existand. I mean 170 on the average murders per year, before 1994, to 24000 murders per year after 1994. How do you justify this? Is apartheid still to blame? No ways, it is just that you don’t want to admit that ” the democratic anc ” has failed. It let its own so called oppressed people down. It has failed its people and the rest of the world.

          Why don’t the people, and I mean the people of South Africa, put the past behind them, what happened, happen, nobody can stop it now. Water down the river is gone for ever. Reach out to each other, eccept each other, stand as a nation together and say right, this is where we are. Get rid of this union junk. Lets start together, even if our pay is r 10 per day. Jobs can be created, believe me. We dont have to import our goods, food etc. We can build this country again to where it were before 1994. It is possible. Get rid of the Kenyans, Somalies, Zimbawians, Angolans, Mosambiekians, Pakistanies and every one that is not South Africans. I promise you this, when we get to the accepting point, and the stand together point, this country will be once again a good example to the world of what can be done, if we stand together.

        • Justin McBride

          we can get to the future so much easier if people did not insist on justifying their past. Look at Wim for example.

          or putting a rose hued glasses about the post. Look at you… “we had jobs” really, management jobs was restricted to “whites”, due to generations of abuse, the majority of “blacks” were restricted to unskilled labour.

          The fact that the ANC has not changed this is an indictment on them, not an absolution of the gov back then, they were the ones that actually caused this.

          we played sport together, well, NO.

          Not if we could help it, Sacos motto, “no normal sport in an abnormal society”

          Why would we play with you socially while you stood on our necks in every other facet of life???

          Please, accept it, if you were not white, things SUCKED in apartheid. Accept it, admit it, then we can both stand together and point out the vast ineffiecents and sometimes outright corruption in the ANC gov.

          Until you come to that point, and leave out the “Oh, things were so much more better under apartheid”, I will have no option but to consider you with disdain.

        • Boerewitman1

          Everybody had jobs, the circumstances then were much better for EVERYBODY,White, Black Coloured and Indian. Why can’t or don’t you want to accept the facts. I think I know why. Because your are a racist. I don’t communicate with racists.

        • Justin McBride

          Really, EVERY single person in SA had a job… ???

          I also love the way that you call me racist without anything at all to back up that allegation. Well done, your have shown your plan of argument, when someone disagrees, call them racist, you have no use for facts :)

          No need to answer any of my points as to why things were worse back then, because, you can just call me a racist…

          Thanks showing me that the disdain I felt was indeed justified.

          So, the fact that

          http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-the-burning-question/is-apartheid-to-blame-for-sas-unemployment-problem
          Look at moneyweb, taking issue with the comment that Apartheid is to blame, where they rightly state that a large portion of the blame rests on the ANC shoulders, which I do believe is true.

          But they also have this to say.

          “Apartheid’s role

          There’s no real doubt that apartheid is the root cause of a lot of South Africa’s problems. Under apartheid, most South Africans didn’t get an education that was worth anything much. Most South Africans were not allowed to move freely around the country, were not able to borrow money on fair terms, were not able to freely start businesses, and in many cases were not even able to live with their families because of the patterns of migration and employment that were common.

          All of these injustices, and many others, have effects that endure today. Educational attainment is still highly unequal in South Africa. Historically black schools still have, on average, fewer resources, higher learner-to-teacher ratios, and less favourable outcomes. Under-educated parents are unable to help their children with their schooling. Income disparities mean that, on average, black South African families generally have fewer resources to devote to education, so that it’s harder for black learners to take extra lessons or build up home libraries (shown to enhance educational attainment), or learn computer skills at home. Disruptions to family life also have their cost. Some children raised in unstable homes don’t learn the social skills necessary to function well in a job, for example. And the list goes on.

          Given this, it’s unsurprising (but depressing) to see huge differences in employment rates by race. While unemployment rates for black South Africans hover around 30%, rates for white, Indian, and coloured South Africans are much lower. Apartheid, then, clearly bears much of the responsibility for the gap in employment between black South Africans and other South Africans. However, it’s not the whole story.”

          So, apartheid did cause inequalities, apartheid was not the rosy pictured idyllic world were EVERYTHING was better, EVERYONE had jobs.

          And yes, in 18 years there should have been much better changes, and yes, the ANC has let down the masses, indeed, in my own opinion, the so called leaders have merely tried to enrich themselves.

          But that still does not mean that everything was better.

          The fact that millions of people and well as academics comdemn apartheid should be enough to convince a right thinking person that things were not better under apartheid, but fails to convince you should be troubling…

        • Justin McBride

          Also, 1994 unemployment was 26% (which was just after the new gov and therefore can be accepted to be a historic carry over) therefore , it can not be considered that everyone had a job.

          “Black” south african had a 37% unemployment rate.

          http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/nft/2006/soafrica/eng/pasoafr/sach3.pdf

          Here is some other papers for the rise in unemployment,. by all means, educate yourself

          http://www.nber.org/papers/w13167.pdf

          here is an extract
          http://www.nelsonmandela.org/omalley/index.php/site/q/03lv02167/04lv02175/05lv02183.htm
          It will soon be two years since that historic victory. How well has the ANC led Government of National Unity (GNU) fulfilled the hopes raised by its entry to office? Commentators typically approach this question by launching a sort of pre-emptive strike. They talk about the problem of ‘expectations’. By this they mean that the black people who voted for the ANC in April 1994 did so in the belief that the political transformation represented by black majority rule would rapidly usher in a social and economic transformation as well. Having won the vote, they expected from an ANC dominated government jobs, houses, and schools as well. But – say the commentators – these expectations are ‘unrealistic’. The GNU, like governments everywhere, has to worry about enhancing competitiveness and reducing public spending. The masses’ hopes for a rapid improvement in their material conditions will have to be deferred, perhaps indefinitely.

          If this argument is correct, it predicts a bleak future for South Africa. In 1990 42 percent of the population lived in poverty.1 In 1991 South Africa had a Gini co-efficient, which measures the extent of income inequality, of 0.68, the highest in a group of 36 developing countries. That same year the poorest 40 percent of households earned 4 percent of national income, while the richest 10 percent received more than half.2 In 1995 unemployment among Africans was calculated to be 37 percent – almost certainly an underestimate.3

          The appalling economic plight of the black majority was summed up recently by the Socialist Workers Organisation of South Africa:

          Only one out of five African households have running water BUT every white household has running water.

          One quarter of all African households get less than R300 a month. Two thirds get less than the breadline – R900 a month. BUT two thirds of white households get more than R2000 a month.

          Two thirds of African children and half of Coloured children live in overcrowded houses BUT only 1 out of 100 white children live in overcrowded conditions.

          Less than half of African kids live in a proper brick house. The rest live in shacks or huts BUT most white children live in a brick house.4

          Leaving in place such poverty and inequality would help to perpetuate the desperation and misery that have produced levels of violence, both political and criminal, making South Africa one of the most dangerous societies in the world. It would also, over time, undermine the political achievements of the ANC led mass movement. To see whether such a grim outcome is inevitable we need, in the first instance, to consider the process that brought about the triumph of April 1994 in the first place.

        • Pretorius

          The white Boer is not responsible in creating jobs for black people are they and if they are why. Find your own job blackman go back to your homeland where you forced us of your land and create your own job.Take your brittish friends with you

        • Justin

          Judging by your grammer and the spelling of the word British it would seem that you a Boerwitman under a new name.

          South Africa is my homeland???

          Please try to make sense… , otherwise I can’t play with you if you don’t play by the rules of logical thought and debate

        • Pretorius

          I know the history of the country maybe you don’t

        • Justin

          from

          http://blogs.24.com/jeanihess/tag/verwoerd/

          On my blog:

          “I grew up relatively very privileged in the sense of race relations than most South Africans in a small town. Privileged to have food on the table but not rich like many other whites. And there were many like me. My parents were not rich and barely middle class. I loved cultures and contrary to belief frequented, like my father of late, by visiting my friends in the townships. Some people in SA, seemed to think, everyone had miserable lives like them under Apartheid. I learned in life, no person’s experience are the same. (Tell that to many Africans and some whites. Ignorant as a plank and very narrow minded with their world encompassing their immediate surroundings)

          Though my parents didn’t have money they did manage to send me abroad as I wanted to travel, and with the 5 coins I managed to turn into 10 by in later life to pay for my own education getting a Masters degree abroad. On various returns to South Africa over a period of 12 years, it was evident the door closed more tighter for a certain jobs. Low skilled jobs aplenty. During Apartheid there was no money. The country was bankrupt. After Apartheid money aplenty, and it’s pumped into opportunities for the black race. Opportunities I never had. …”

          That is right. You hardly had any money.

          In fact, to begin with, most of you had NO money- or property- or homes….

          We spoke of the English with some awe- they were rich… mostly

          and some of the Boer farmers- they were rich too, and some of the Boers in the towns. .

          … or such were the impressions; well due to what one could see

          Hmm … but there was that little thing of BYWONERS

          oh, and also of POOR WHITES…

          and massive ILLITERACY

          and UNEMPLOYMENT.

          Dr Voster did not like these blights on the Afrikaner nation. As the world rejected Nazism he plotted and schemed along the lines of Separate Development.

          If the Boer people supported his plan then he would rid South Africa of BYWONERS and POOR WHITES.and the other white social ills.

          It was always about uplifting poor white people …

          Why do white South Africa keep telling us how poor they were?

          We KNOW how poor you were.

          We also know that white South Africa grabbed the opportunity to dispossess people of colour of their remaining land, homes and jobs in order to change white poverty to a lifestyle of entitlement and privilege.

          The only qualification to participate in this Entitlement scheme, was a white skin …

          and hair through which a pencil could glide.

          Your parents did not have money?

          They were taken from their bywoner and poor white status and given homes and land. They were provided with jobs for themselves and free compulsory schooling for their children.

          Illiterate white men were made supervisors of skilled and literate clerks and other workers of colour. Their job was simply to control 5-10 workers; to make sure that these workers were on the job all the time and they could use violence freely.

          Meanwhile literate and skilled whites were imported to fill the gaps and people of colour found themselves increasingly replaced by these workers.

          After 12 years, the first white matriculants left school and were provided with jobs… railway clerks, post office clerks, shop assistants, managerial and supervisor positions… People of colour were forbidden to fill such positions. Now every year the government created these jobs for white school leavers…

          Social workers made sure that every white child was at school. Organizations were created and funded to make sure that every white family would get a low cost loan and a home.

          Pregnancy out of wedlock was not tolerated. If you claimed that a man of colour raped you, you could have an abortion. People sent their daughters to far way aunties and later one would hear that the aunty had a baby… the daughter was helping her hey, and the people of colour in the kitchens, their own and in the madam’s would whisper and smile quietly.

          And so the white South Africans became an educated and prosperous people- very decent and upstanding and of very high morals.

          Not all had lots of money but they were given all the essential basics for a good life and to establish a foundation to launch their children and future white South African generations into sustained privilege.

          Of course most of you were poor; your families were poor whites, bywoners, illiterate and homeless.

          Verwoerd especially drove the plan for the enrichment of white South Africa

          While many Boers, Afrikaans speaking. South African Whites, maintained their disputes with the English at every conceivable social level, Verwoerd imported whites from all over Europe and provided each who came with a job and a home.

          So there we are. We KNOW that you were poor. We KNOW that you became privileged and employed even if cash strapped. But then there was the VVO and the housing companies and other institutions and the government grants that ensured stability and access to the necessary provisions.

          We know.

          What is it about this that you do not understand?

          What is it that makes you so ungrateful of our goodwill so that you keep wagging your manicured fingers in our faces and tell us to sort out redress of the past all by ourselves?

          Jeanihess Blog South Africa

        • hahanono

          you should stop communicating with yourself than.

        • hahanono

          Only racist people claim to be non racist. and you sir are a dumb racist. go back to your hole. this world is past your old antiquated views

        • Pretorius

          Go back to your home land and build your own towns take your Brittish friends with you

        • Justin

          ???? When Mandela was involved in the resistance, as stated by Thula, the British was long out of the country and it was the NP and Voerwoed and ilk that was oppressing us. Why would we want to travel to Britain to attack the British, who had no part in the government of South Africa at the applicable times????

        • Pretorius

          The brittish has always been a part of south africa, They are the founders of the ANC. APLA, FAPLA,SWAPO,AU,World counsel off churches. PAC, and the worst off all the catholic church. They need minerals and black slaves to work their mines

        • Justin

          Hmmm, I don’t think I am going to bother to reply, its seems like this is mindless rantings.

          The so called Catholic Church is roman (Italy / vatican). The British did influence Christianity here as it had sent numerous missionaries. However, they were from the Chruch of England and there was formed a Branch in SA. Being the Church of the Province of SA. Now known as Anglicans (Anglican meaning British).

          So, it seems you do not try to rely on, or establish facts, but merely incoherent ramblings. Hence, my reaction will be ignoring you till you actually say something worth replying to.

        • Pretorius

          Wher where black people killed in thousands we owe the black people nothing. Also this is not your land where did you get it from because when the Boer first came here there was almost no blacks here. The only blacks found here was the matebele Msilikaats. It’s not your land go back to Mafikeng and build your own town scools hospitals plaese just go we don’t need you.

        • Pretorius

          Shame poor blacks thousands of them gunnen down by who ? mm. curtainly not the Boers. Did you know that Dr Verwoerd has build more houses for black people that he did for whites. Oh and the struggle agains aparthied what struggle ? How did you struggle what does the word struggle mean. Where you involved in the struggle what!! did you not have food to eat what does the ANC mean by struggle. I hope you don’t struggle to reply.

        • uNKABINDE

          you are a racist,just go back to holland and leave africa for us africans,pale devil.

        • Wim Kotze

          Why Holland? Who will pay for permanently disadvantaged Conglese Makwerekwere like you?

        • Bij

          closet racist…why don’t you stop your hypocrisy and just openly admit that you are a bitter impotent racist trying his very best to rationalise his inherent racism.

        • Wim Kotze

          …and what else did your sangoma tell you?

        • Nick Thomas

          Is the phrase ‘Pale Devil’ a racist one or is racism only a one way street. I wonder if someone were to call you a ‘Black Devil’ the ‘wets’ on this thread would tolerate it? ….
          My wife’s family ( Huguenot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenots_in_South_Africa) came to the Cape in 1687..There were NO black people in the Western Cape only San and Coy.

          In fact they were here before uNKabinde and family arrived…so please get some facts before spouting off!

        • Justin

          on the racism part, I agree, not sure that modern archeology findings support that there was no “balck” people here. What do you define as “black” anyway.

          I use the PAC definition that “black” in SA refers to those that were oppressed.

        • Justin

          I think that you are a racist as well. Africa is for all of us born here, irrespective of our skin colour. We are all Africans.

        • hahanono

          ok.. so when white people tell you to go back to africa you yell racism.. yet here you are…. no wonder you were enslaved for so long. low intelligence.

        • uhuru

          violence is neccessary when you are being opressed and disrespected in your own homeland

        • Wim Kotze

          You’ve got the story wrong: the Zulus were shot outside Shell House by ANC scoundrels on instruction from Mandela. See what you got for burning your school?

        • Justin McBride

          he was obviously talking about the violence against an entire population based on skin colour. Its a pity that your privilaged edcuation seems to been wasted on you…

        • Bij

          unfortunate but true

        • 3007

          you sick. You’ re a biopolar boytijie.

        • Wim Kotze

          This is not a dating site. Try a public toilet.

        • Akin

          I am rather surprised at your vehemence. Were the Afrikaners saints? What evil did they not do? Can you really argue that the black leadership should be the boys scout while the people are slaughtered at will? I cannot really see the point in your argument.

        • Pik Botha

          Good to have you here, Warthog, seeing that Wim Kotze is intent on defaming everything South African.
          Pik Botha

        • Ernie Ford

          Pik Botha, you are the man least qualified to open your big mouth. read Ian Smiths book The Great Betrayal. He tells the truth about you, John Vorster, De Klerk and Rolihlahla’s relationship with British MI6 in Whitehall. You sold out the people who elected you. All three of you should get the same treatment as Mussolini .You &
          political parasites like you are a waste of good oxigen

        • uNKABINDE

          thanx dude

        • Partyforever

          All I can say to you ANC supporters is the following:

          Nelson Mandela’s best friend have always been Fidel Castro – do you agree? Google image search, read his autobiography, listen to all Mandel’s speeches … In 1961 Mandela was arrested with 210,000 Soviet made hand grenades, 144 tons of explosives, along with 19 other communists.

          So by 1961, Mandela was already deeply in debt to the USSR to the tune of billions of $ of weaponry.

          Now what do you think would have happened to South Africa if the ANC had won in 1961? You can bet that the USSR would have wanted something for 210,000 Soviet hand grenades, 144 tons of explosives …

          South Africa would have become the next mining colony of the USSR. The USSR factories were all located in Moscow. The South African blacks would have worked like communists slaves with no private property, exporting all the raw materials in South Africa to factories located in the USSR and Mr. Mandela and his best friend Fidel Castro would have been smoking cigars together…;)

        • Boerewitman1

          Mandela were on Robben Island for only 5 years. He spend the rest of his sentence at Victor Verster prison, near the most beautifull town, Paarl, in his own house, with aircon and a pool. He were allowed to recieve visitors at any time. Still he allowed terrorist acts to proceed in this country. He therefor remains a terrorist, due to his actions. It is unthinkable to give satan any glory.

        • Justin McBride

          its is ok to fight for freedom. If we had not we would still be oppressed.

          What is your stance on the anglo-boer war… The Boere should have just given up their arms right???

        • Bij

          Anyone who opposes the regime in place is labelled as a terrorist. If a person is called a terrorist for opposing a cruel inhuman regime like apartheid then that man deserves to be called a hero not a terrorist. He was opposing terrorism (apartheid).

        • Jacques

          He was a terrorist leader. That is what the ANC is born from

        • Bij

          and how do you feel about Apartheid?

        • Jacques

          Well, BEE and all this is Apartheid in its own rights. And is 100% against the Constitution that was put in place because of the previous Apartheid.

          So no, I am not a fan of Apartheid, wasn’t then, and sure as heck not now either.

        • sickofthelies

          a man who planted bombs that injured innocent people is called a terrorist. get your facts straight!

        • Dee

          He could easily have announced terrorism!: “This is terrorism”.

        • yodaho

          Haha, you clearly show you haven’t a clue! What did he have to announce about terrorism?? A-hole! He had to “renounce” violence, not terrorism and the first offer to be released was made in 1976! That is 14 years before his release which is not near the end of his time there.

          SA is lucky to have him, haha! Really shows what you know.

        • eugene

          you were not at shell house I lost many of my colleagues at shell house because the anc shot at the zulus and the white policeman monitoring the march it was peaceful till we reached shell house there where no attack on the anc office but yet they shot at us killing many innocent people get your facts right

        • Jo Barton

          Typical dutchman

        • Wim Kotze

          Typical slimey redneck.

        • hahanono

          truth

        • unzmero

          I wouldn’t bother with this sore loosing schmuck jo. a typical low life, he’ll invent things in his head to better offset for his small manhood/ego.
          Let the troll be, everyone deserves to be happy.

        • hahanono

          racist

        • South African

          No but George Washington did instruct John Sullivan to kill the Iroquois people. All whites spread from Europe like a plague populating and devouring everything in their path. The true people of America are the red indians. The bushman in South Africa not the blacks. The blacks were imported by the whites in power after slaughtering the bushmen. The slaves eventually gave rise and now run South Africa. The native people of South Africa are still struggling as are the indians in America living in their concentration camps ”Ahem” i mean reservations. So yeah America was built by the blood soaked hands of George and his generals.

        • Tracey Nixon

          “Blacks were imported by the whites in power”? Are you fricking kidding me?

          So the whites imported the Xhosa? The Zulu they encountered during the Great Trek were put there by who? Other whites?

          Please learn your history.

        • Bart

          Just so you know the bushman were killed by both the whites and the Zulus , and the Zulus were here before the whites so there was no importing of blacks

        • gail001

          which region of South Africa are you referring to. The Europeans who colonized the Cape brought Western Civilization starting at the Cape WHERE THERE WERE NO BLACK AFRICANS – while the Black Tribes up North were still wearing loincloths and eating each other and selling each other into slavery with the help of the Arabs

        • thula

          WTF are you talking about. I happen to be Zulu and in no way are my people cannibals, nor have they ever been. Not only is what you are saying insulting to African culture, but it shows just how ignorant you are.

        • Wim Kotze

          True, the Zulus weren’t cannibals, but they do make strange muti. You shouldn’t let your kids outside your kraal at night.

        • Boerewitman1

          That is why the Cape is still the STAR of Africa and the rest of South Africa got the best growth and ecoinomy in Africa. Why,? black peolpe, in general, is mass destroyers.

        • Justin McBride

          where did you get that there were no black south africans in the Western Cape?

        • Boer

          Wim, jy praat kak! Jy is so dom, dit is virskriklik!

        • Wim Kotze

          Van iemand wat nie kan spel nie. Stick to your Bantu patois.

        • Lily

          Wim, I would just like to try understand your apparent inherent belief that the Afrikaans people have a claim on South Africa, seeings as you babble on about how The British (who I am descended from, so don’t try use your little “go back to your Bantustan” retort on me) forced the two Afrikaans sovereign states into a unitary state as if the Afrikaans people had always been here.

          You might want to do a little research, stop insulting black people who are infinitely better people than you and perhaps buy yourself some nappies and a pacifier until you can find yourself some maturity. Oh, and try checking your own spelling before you go off at someone else’s.

          And just by the way, the ANC was founded in 1912 to lobby for equality – not to kill white people, as you have insinuated on so many occasions.

        • Wim Kotze

          Do you have an overactive imagination or didn’t you follow the thread? Why do you resort to invective instead of addressing what I wrote? Judging from your tirade it is your knowledge of this countrys history that is sorely lacking. Then again, it is to be expected from an arrogant carpetbagger.

        • Justin McBride

          I followed the thread, her points were valid.

        • Lily

          Believe it or not, I actually did follow (which was quite difficult, considering your seeming lack of understanding of basic grammar rules), but enough of my invective, as you put it.

          To retort, my knowledge is not lacking. In fact, I’d wager it’s infinitely better than yours, but let’s stick to the facts, shall we?

          “Mandela was asked to renounce violence as political instrument, and he declined because it was contrary to ANC policy.”

          Wrong – “On 6 August 1990 the South African government and the African National Congress extended the consensus to include several new points. This Pretoria Minute included the suspension of the armed struggle by the ANC and its military wing Umkhonto we Sizwe.”

          “I find it curious that Mandela, and his cohorts at the time, were all staunch supporters of Stalin…” Well no – as Mandela noted in his speech at the Rivonia trial, “Well, I don`t know if I did become a Communist. If by Communist you mean a member of the Communist party and a person who believes in the theory of Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin, and who adheres strictly to the discipline of the party, I did not become a Communist.”

          http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=3743

          And before you tell me that extract does not mention Stalin, answer me this: how can one be pro-Stalin without being pro-Communism?

          Also, do not confuse advocating Communism with associating with Communists: “What is more, for many decades communists were the only political group in South Africa who were prepared to treat Africans as human beings and their equals; who were prepared to eat with us; talk with us, live with us, and work with us. They were the only political group which was prepared to work with the Africans for the attainment of political rights and a stake in society.”

          http://www.rfksafilm.org/html/speeches/mandela.php

          But Dearest Wim, you have not helped me understand the following conundrum:

          Why do you think the Boere have a legitimate claim on South African soil?

          Oh, and just by the way – I’d like to ask when you got retrenched. You clearly have a lot of time on your hands.

        • 3007

          Losers in the end. 1994 a year of reckoning

      • Bulldog007

        In addition to Mandela some other leaders could be classed as terrorists. One would have been Menachim Begin, another Robert Mugabe, Gerry Adams

        The list is far from complete.

        • AdamLucifer

          What about the first PM of of Israel, Ben-Gurion? He was the UK’s most wanted terrorist, guilty of the hanging of British soldiers.

        • Bulldog007

          Think about the behaviour of the British Mandate authorities and how many Jews were hanged because they were found carrying weapons. It was unfortunate that two British sargeants were hanged in an orchard but after that the hanging of Jews ceased.

          The Labour government was openly hostile to the Jews and extremely pro-Arab. Ernest Bevin was a virulent anti-semite

        • AdamLucifer

          So what is your point then? That terrorism works?

        • Justin

          that when there is no other way of fighting, that terrorism becomes a valid option, at least that is what I think he is saying

        • Bulldog007

          Thank you butthis is an unfortunate fact about the modern world. Perhaps we should all become Ghandis and, like the Mahattma, engage in civil disobediance.

        • Justin McBride

          how does Britain been anti-semitic go with the Balfour Declaration? I agree that Israel should not have come into being and that the people that were in the area should be been granted they nationhood, that includes all jews in the area.

        • hahanono

          what about the christian and muslims? kick them out so european jews who have no ties to the land can come in?

        • Justin

          What I am saying is that all the inhabitants of the time in the Area now known as Israel, should have been allowed to form their nation in the land of their birth. Be they Arab, jew, white, black, hispanic etc… The land should be given to the people that lived there.

          But I think you think along the same lines. It was wrong to import foreigners to take over a land and deny nationhood to those that are there.

          But today we have a factual situation, Israel is here to stay, we must just fight for equality, and that those refugees be given their land and full unqualified citizenship.

          and that the international, every Jew is a citizen irrespective of where he is, be revoked.

        • Boerewitman1

          I just love Ben-Gurion. He is my hero. Killing brittish soldiers, great.

        • Justin McBride

          so basically you’re saying that its all about race and not right and wrong. Because the arguments against Mandela, was that he used armed forces against the SA gov. which you considered the legitimate gov. therefore he was a terrorist.

          But you are saying you love Ben -Gurion, because he did the same, employed violence against the British, which was the colonial power at the time, and therefore the gov.

          Therefore you should have no objection to people loving anyone who killed “boere”.

          I would, because that is based on race or nationalism, but you are obviously of a different mind.

        • hahanono

          nah hes just racist and uneducated

        • hahanono

          dont worry for every dead british soldier theres a couple 100,000 dead africans. so go ahead kill another soldier ;)

      • gsmiles

        Big Leo is correct. He was seen as a terrorist by the white government, and preached as such. he was even on the USA’s “naughty list”

      • pacaratac

        Point of difference. Once USA got it’s independence, the war stopped. Under mandela the war escalated.

      • TSOTSI

        THERE IS NO COMPARISON, SOUTH AFRICA GAINED IT INDEPENDENCE BY KICKING OUT THE BRITISH IN 1960. I WATCH BRITISH POLICE ATTACK BLACKS WEARING PITH HELMETS. FROM DAY ONE FOLLOWING INDEPENDENCE POLICE OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA HAVE WORN PARA MILITARY FATIGUE UNIFORMS. THE FIRST
        ACTION TAKEN BY THE NEW GOVERNMENT WAS TO REMOVE ALL THE ENGLISH RESTRICTIONS PLACED ON BLACKS. THE BLACK ENTRANCES TO SHOPS, NON-EUROPEAN BENCHES IN PARKS, 6.30 PM SIRENS TO WARN BLACKS TO GET OUT OF WHITE AREAS. HOLIHLAHLA MANDELA WAS NAMED NELSON BY BRITISH PM HAROLD MACMILLAN WHO HANDED IT TO TABLOID NEWSPAPERS IN WHICH HE HAD A FINANCIAL INTEREST.
        A HOLANDER NAMED HENDRIK VERWOED WHO WAS PUT IN THE PRESIDENCY TO APPEASE THE BROEDERBOND HEARD THE WORD APARTHEID BY A UK TABLOID AND THOUGHT CUTE. THE ACTUAL POLICY WAS CALLED SEPARATE DEVELOPEMENT. IT WAS DESIGNED BY XHOSA, PONDO, AND ZULU LEADERS. THE ANC IS NOT A SOUTH AFRICAN ORGANISATION. IT WAS STARTED IN TANZANIA AND FUNDED BY HAROLD MACMILLAN AFTER HIS “WINDS OF AFRICA ARE BLOWING OVER AFRICA SPEECH”.HE WAS TALKING ABOUT MILLIONS OF POUNDS OF ARMS LANDMINES, EXPLOSIVES AND MILITARY HARDWARE GIVEN TO THE ANC TO RETURN THEIR MOST LUCRATIVE CASH COW EVER BACK TO THE COMMONWEALTH WHERE THE COULD BE MORE EFFECTIVELY MILKED. ALL THE ANC DID WAS RETARD THE GROWTH OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN BLACKS FOR 40 YEARS FOR THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT. MANDELA’S FIRST TRIP WAS TO THE UK. HIS FIRST VISIT WAS TO WHITE HALL TO COLLECT HIS 18 MILLION US DOLLARS.

      • vincarosa

        You are simply wrong. The Americans may have used GUERILLA tactics, i.e. unconventional warfare tactics in defeating the English. But on the other hand, TERRORISTS deliberately target CIVILIANS to TERRORIZE them to cooperate and break down resistance. This is what the so-called militia groups Hamas, Hezbollah etc do against Israel — they target school buses, restaurants and residential areas . Likewise in the ANC take-over of South Africa , CIVILIANS were brutally targeted such as the infamous grisly ‘necklacing’ of non-party members. This also happened on a huge scale in the communist take-over of China, where mass terrorization tactics were implemented to ensure that no one would dare oppose them.

    • joe

      you stupid uneducated cunt,your parents never loved you at birth read the facts before you run your mouth on one of the greatest persons who walked this earth

      • Peace

        Please refrain from using insult as even Mandela would not agree with you man.

      • Voice of Reason

        Dear ‘joe’

        The hypocrisy of you calling Big Leo a stupid, uneducated c*** is flabbergastingly inexplicable. If they’re not yet dead (and, in that case, I’m confident they wish they actually were,) I’m fairly certain your parents aren’t quite gleaming with pride at the worthless twaddle you spewed… Unless you are a result of their upbringing and indoctrination, meaning that they’re obviously consummate pillars of intellectual high-bred society and bastions of humble civility…

        Is your sarcasm detector causing otic bleeding yet?

        To wit: your name, ‘joe’, requires (by rudimentary grammar rules) capitalisation; as does ‘you’. You didn’t leave a space after the first comma, gave no punctuation indicative of pause after ‘birth’ and used ‘on’ incorrectly. Also, the word ‘persons’ should have been ‘people’, technically, and you failed to employ a period (also called a ‘full stop’, sunshine.)

        Did you even graduate primary school?

        No… You, joe (sic,) are the stupid, uneducated c***… If your fundamentally infantile mind can get around the simple concept of abbreviation, then STFU and GTFO, you dim bellend.

        • wambam

          WINNING!

        • AK

          Joe is clearly off the mark and his language is unacceptable in a civilized conversation/disagreement. However, I am not totally convinced that a rebuttal of “I went to College” english sprinkled with the same garbage is any better. At least he went straight to his point!!

        • AdamLucifer

          Your pedantry makes you no less of an abusive r-sole than the person to whom you are responding. You are simply more garrulous. Certainly your self-styled appellation “Voice of Reason” is a misnomer.

        • Robi Michael Schiffman

          Point of note: joe does not require (by rudimentary grammar rules) capitalisation – if a person desires to spell their name with small letters that is their right – for example the renowned poet e.e.cummings.
          Likewise, should a person choose to negate the importance of another person or group, using a small letter as opposed to a capital letter would serve that purpose as in arab or palestinian vs. Arab or Palestinian.
          Getting the picture? OK good.
          I would suggest that you refrain from playing “Miss English Grammar 2013″ until yours is up to par.

        • Justin McBride

          You’re funny, but joe has a valid point, if not well put, it was said with feeling.

      • Kangai

        The fact that u using such foul language in reference to others actually reflect you as the uneducated one, agree?

      • Big Leo

        Am I wrong or is Joe trying to declare his intellectual and social superiority to me in the language and style of a particularly dim sixth grader?

      • Lyall Chazen

        Oh, you poor indoctrinated sheep. In your delusional reckoning, you find him superior even to Jesus Christ, correct? Ironic that you would dare call anyone else “uneducated” as most probably your ‘education’ has consisted of nothing but spoonfed ANC propaganda that you gladly swallowed.

      • hahanono

        learn grammar

    • P James Flynn

      Do you not mean renounce freedom fighting ?

      • Truth

        The many victims of his bombings who had nothing to do with apartheid and could do nothing for his freedom aside from being innocent unwilling martyrs may see it differently …

        • P James Flynn

          Military history will show that great causes result in great injustices .

        • Truth

          No doubt, but neither terrorist nor freedom fighter is part of a recognized / sanctioned military force, had they been, the specific targeting of civilians would be a war crime, something which cannot be defended at The Hague by saying “it was for a great cause”

        • AdamLucifer

          So Resistance fighters in WW2 who killed Nazis were guilty of war crimes because they were not members of “a recognized/sanctioned military force”?

        • Truth

          “the specific targeting of civilians would be a war crime”

          did you read it at all?

        • suscol

          I am white and I would totally have accepted losing family members in a bombing as the fault of the APARTHIED REGIME which would respond to nothing less than total economic boycott and violence against its privileged citizens. For 50 years, the ANC tried every method available to bring the SA government to book, and only resorted to violence when there was no alternative left.

        • Truth

          you would accept the loss of your own family members regardless of their innocence??? jesus i am glad you are no family of mine, what a despicable and warped sense of justice is festering in your twisted brain? innocent is innocent, PERIOD

        • Justin

          not making sense truth, read what he has said, he would have accepted it as the fault of the Apartheid regime. Ie, due to the fact that the apartheid regime created a situation that oppressed people and denied them basic human rights, it caused those people to rise up and fight the oppressive system. If his family got killed in that struggle, it would be the fault of the oppressive government that caused the need for the uprising.

          What about the other innocents, millions of them doomed to an inferior education, lack of opportunities, starvation, death, imprisonment, forced removal from their families. Forced removal from their homes… etc, etc.. Don’t they get someone to stand up for them?

          and to repeat Suscol’s point, the ANC with other African organisation, including ones lead by Ghandi, were agitating peacefully for change for more than 20 years. Nothing happened. The world as a whole did not know anything.

          You saying that they should have continued with an obvious ineffective strategy for another 50 years… ?

          Look what peacefuk protest lead to, Sharpville.

        • praise

          If we had more Suscols the world would be a better place. Truth how do you even mention the name Jesus to push through your hatred plan.

        • AdamLucifer

          “His bombings”?

        • Truth

          yes, when you are the head of an organization that gives the order to bomb something it becomes your act as much as the actual offender

        • Justin

          He was in prison, and I don’t see any problem with using bombs when the other side is killing you and yours ????

          At the time that he was imprisoned, and he went on trial, all the bombings were for military targets.

          It only started getting less purely military after his trial.

          But lets look at the apartheid government, were their apartheid policies limited to military personnel? Or did their politics affect every person that was too dark or did not have straight hair?

          Was the massive deprivations effected on so called non-whites limited to Umkhonto we Sizwe , or applied to every “non-white”. Yet you want the oppressed to be extra fussy about its targets, you hypocrite.

        • Gypsey Montes

          and the world still thinks if you are a a white S.African you must be racist….what about the 68% that came out to Vote YES and to set S.Africa and mandela free….little is said about the beauty we shared as S.Africans wit hh government the enemy ….or IFP were slandared by ANC as being on the side of the white and lied to their own people to get them to vote offering the houses in affluent areas and today they have no work and live in slum….its sad

    • andrew parker

      Do you not find it ironic that a man is called a terrorist for fighting against what was undoutbedly a crime against humanity?

      • Abby

        I am from South Africa – Dont get me wrong Madela is a great guy (When he become president he could have turned this country into a blood bath, instead he used peace and try to get everyone to live happily) but do not forget the reason why he was sent to prison in the first place was because he blew up and building and killed a few innocent people. Doesn’t matter for what cause a person does certain things whether it is because they are they are unhappy with wages, service delivery, unhappy with the government the moment you destroy property and INNOCENT people are killed, are they then not terrorist?

        • aaa

          Dude… come to the ANC headquarters and read up on his manuscripts… I challenge you to find your claim… liar… i’m the ANC of Mandela forth for freedom and justice. ie. the government then did not kill fearing a blood bath after ther killed Steve Biko… read your history… you ancestors been killing innocent black people, coloured and Indians since apartheid. Now you want to paint yourself clean. And for your info I saw most these firsthand, even during the March when the boer used hold us hostage (kids) and make our parent behave… if you know of SaCollege on proes street. you know what happened there..

        • Truth

          Yes, because the ANC speaks only the truth of its own actions and ANC HQ would be the most trustworthy information source on the topic … sarcasm btw, welcome to it … also, I challenge you to study the actions of Umkhonto We Sizwe a bit and figure out who gave their orders from the ANC …

        • CVD

          O yes you twit – Abby is a girls name – so it is not “dude” – shame must be terrible to be so stupid and not be able to know the difference between male and femal. Get someone to draw you some pictures!

        • Botshelo Mokoka

          Name Calling CVD? if it makes you a better I guess…

          I know of one Abby, owns a Plumbers supplies store around Soshanguve, Gauteng, in South Africa, so naturally I didn’t think twice… so with that said I apologies to you Abby, and so highlight another disaster in what was maybe the Abby’s (South African one I know) parents failure in not knowing that they were naming their child with a girl’s name, or maybe the education they received (Apartheid Bantu Education) which required knowledge of Afrikaans or Any and all language first as it was then the language of the oppressor… We shall never know… But you seriously didn’t not have to resort to name calling to correct me.
          (Former aaa)

        • Wim Kotze

          Way to go. Blame it on apartheid.

        • Bart

          Shaka killed over a million blacks and there crime was the treatment of his mother. We all have it in us to do the same it is just the trigger that differs.

        • Passingby

          We live in an unjust world. So, cast no stone if you are sinner. We all are. So, don’t judge. Yes, to fight for people’s right, you’d gone beyond normal actions. Apparently, history proved it that Whites went beyond their boundaries to enslave human like them in their own land for the reasons to change the world (It’s cool though because the world is changing for the good, bad and ugly). Tell me as a normal person, if ordinary 50 Rand of yours is stolen in front of you by an obvious stranger claiming an indigene, would you wait hundred years to fight for what is yours? Like I said, I’m not judging still but, allow a dieing man a life until his demise. Undoubtedly, Mandela is a great man which history proved. Most times in life, you do the wrong to get the right. Ask your parents how they get you to life. This life is a live filmed story courtesy of God. His entourages are watching as it’s being played. We are the actors. So, God alone can edit it to suit heaven. Blessed to Jah! “Forgive me Lord if I misled here”

        • andrew parker

          Taking your argument in context then you have to agree that the United States is now a terrorist nation is it not?

        • Harry Bharaj

          How sad are you Abby …when a country is taken by force and its people become slaves to the invaders, who then go on to plunder,pillage, kill and rape innocent people,and Nelson rose through this, who gives you the right to call them terrorists when all they are doing in fighting to get back their country…so who is the terrorist in the first place? Nelson fought for his country, not invade England or Netherlands and force the people to become slaves and pillage them…yours views are not only blinkered , biased but totally corrupted by lies fed to the likes of you. The truth is white people were not natives of Africa, Americas, Asia, Australia…they forced themselves into these lands, and when they wanted back their homeland and freedom you class them as terrorists…get real and learn real history, not lies written and fed by the white tongue..

        • DJ

          You claim that someone else must learn the real history, yet your version is as distorted…..Fact! the real indigenous people of South Africa are the Khoi / San People. The rest of the black people in South Africa are descendants to those who invaded S.A from up north. Even these various tribes that traveled from up north fought against each other, killing and plundering (stealing cattle, raping woman etc… ) Go do some research on Shaka.
          S.A does not belong to the current black population as you are so cleverly announcing. I don’t see the ANC government giving anything back to real owners of the land. The ANC likes to claim that the land belongs to the black people of S.A…. It does not! The current black population are as foreign to this part of Africa as the whites are. Go and learn about Dingane and what he did after he had agreed with Piet Retief on a deed of cession of lands and why the battle of blood river happened…… Go a learn some history before blurt out nonsense. Nelson Mandela, the ANC & Umkhonto we Sizwe were killing not only planting bombs and killing white people but they were killing torturing & killing black people in the name of liberation for land that didn’t even belong to them.

        • johny m

          What language wasPiet and Dingane conversing in?

        • DJ

          Typical answer from someone who doesn’t know the history and overlooks the issue to the point of argument. The fact is, Piet Retief feasted with Dingane for a number of days. Piet Retief was obviously naive to believe that Dingane had any morals and their feasting together meant nothing, because Dingane then led an onslaught. The language barrier means nothing with regards to what Dingane did. But I suppose if it was reversed and Piet Retief had attacked first it would of just been a feather in your all knowing cap?

        • Devotion

          I thot he said Africa belongs to Africans, and not that the current black population in SA are natives of SA. The point still remains that whether they migrated from Guruuswa or The Sudan, they are Africans of Africa. their origins are Africa, unlike the other races that invaded “Africa, Asia, Australlia and America” That was the point not that the current black Africans or Dingane and Chaka were natives of SA

        • Bart

          They had a interpreter his name was Fredric (Zulu)

        • suscol

          The Natives Land Act passed in 1913 denied Africans access to land – which before they had either owned or leased from white farmers – confining them to reserves. And effectively confining 80% of the country’s citizens to 13% of its (least fertile, least mineral rich) land.

          http://www.sahistory.org.za/topic/land-act-dispossession-segregation-and-restitution

        • Wim

          Don’t distort the actual purpose of the land act. Blacks were not denied landownership, nor were land taken away from blacks. In fact, blacks were allocated more than 50% of British held territory in southern Africa. You should use more reliable sources and read a little wider than present day propaganda.

        • AdamLucifer

          The indigenous people were “allocated” land by the invaders? My, how generous! Rather like the reservations the Colonisers of the USA “allocated” to the indigenous peoples. Of course in both cases the land “allocated” was the worthless scrub that the occupying forces had no use for… until they discovered valuable resources, then the land swiftly became “reallocated”.

        • Wim Kotze

          Agreed, extermination would have been a better solution. Unfortunately it was not done that way.

        • Vije

          Seriously Wim? Extermination? Do you realize what you are saying? All I can see is anger, resentment and hatred. I am glad where SA is now compared to where it was in Apartheid. It’s not perfect but it is what we have. Either accept the present, or just remain grumpy for the rest of you life. Oh, I’ve been following the posts you’ve been making. In all the wars and battles, if people are oppressed, they fight back. This is natural and they often resort to terrorism. I wouldn’t want that to happen but it was necessary. So in any war, the “terrorists” are the victors and the oppressors are the now the terrorists. History is written by the victors after all. I really am sorry for the state of mind that you’re in.

          It won’t be good for the future of SA if people today still speak with such misdirected, misinformed putrid language. It does not bode well for any of us. In fact you are showing signs of being a resentful closet-case passive aggressive terrorist.

        • Wim Kotze

          Apparently you didn’t understand the context. The response was to comment that refered to American colonization, and to me there is an association with the extermination that was practised in both the USA and Australia during , but not with black tribes in SA. But of course the dutchmen did even worse, they had apartheid! Get some perspective, and stop the holier than thou please.

        • DJ

          Clearly you haven’t read a whole lot…..who are these indigenous people you are referring to and who were the invaders? Those that were “allocated” were Also not the indigenous people of this part of Africa……

        • Justin McBride

          Maybe you should read more, there were certainly people in South Africa before the Portuguese or the dutch.

          Shula Marks examines the abundant archaeological evidence, much of it recently gathered, for the widespread settlement of South Africa before 1488 when Portuguese sailors first reached the Cape.

          http://africanhistory.about.com/od/africanhistoryfaq/f/Mfecane.htm

        • grassroot

          The land that was “allocated” was in fact the very land that
          those different tribes settled for the last 150 years. Most of that land has
          fantastic arable soil and if it had belonged to white people the rich farms and
          suburbs would have been there. Black people have absolutely no one to blame for
          their lack of agriculture and industry. More food is produced by white farmers
          in “South Africa”
          than the amount produced by black agriculture in the entire sub Sahara Africa.

        • Robi Michael Schiffman

          To the victor go the spoils

        • Justin McBride

          delusion runs rampant…

        • Uzoh

          @DJ I do not enjoy any argument that casts aspersion on the person of Nelson Mandela. Here in Nigeria we pray our leaders have his kind of grace. He’s one in a million leaders. He’s an icon, a beacon of light. He’s a symbolic representation of the African race whether Black, Coloured or Whites. Mandela is a miracle to humanity from God. Long live Africa. Long live Nelson Mandela.

        • Wim Kotze

          It speaks volumes for the sad state of black achievement.

        • DJ

          @Uzoh, ppl of all race’s will defend Mandela to the hilt. That is fine, however one must know the true history of who Mandela was and what he signified. Are you aware that there were leaders in the ANC that asked Mandela not to go ahead with initial bombings as they still believed there was room for negotiations with the apartheid Government, yet Mandela refused to hold back?

          Mandela was said to be freed long before he was, on condition that he denounce violence. He refused to denounce violence and to this day has never done so.

          Ever heard of the Quatro Camp in Angola where Umkhonto we Sizwe were torturing and murdering their own?

          Mandela may have done good post apartheid, however a saintly icon he is not.

        • Samuel Frank Campbell

          Quite the spirit! Black achievement. In a sad state! W.T.F.?

        • Vhakwevho

          Does She look white to u or black?

        • DJ

          Who knows

        • Justin McBride

          yep, the empty land alibi, no we did nothing wrong because there was no people in this land when we took it.

          same as the jews did when the claimed israel, “No, no arabs or palestinians here, just empty land”

          both crap, at least you guys admit the Khoi-San was here…

          http://newhistory.co.za/Part-2-Chapter-4-The-Mfecane-Why-did-the-Mfecane-occur-The-myth-of-the-empty-land/

        • Justin McBride

          http://www.historytoday.com/shula-marks/south-africa-myth-empty-land

          Which is an article where Shula Marks examines the abundant archaeological evidence, much of it recently gathered, for the widespread settlement of South Africa before 1488 when Portuguese sailors first reached the Cape.

        • Graham

          It’s not Mandela’s country. The Bantu claim the land down to the Fish River by right of invasion and conquest. The Dutch claim the Cape on the same grounds. If this rule is applied then the Colonists could claim the whole of South Africa by conquest. The land does, in fact, belong to the Koi and San people and the rest of us are settlers. And to finish off there are five groups of people who are native to Africa. Whites in North Africa, Bantu in West Africa, Pygmies in Central Africa and the Koi and San in Southern Africa. Rights to land depend on the date you pick.

        • Graham

          Sorry didn’t see the post below. Something of a repeat. And yes it’s Khoi! I should better.

        • AdamLucifer

          “there are five groups of people who are native to Africa. Whites in North Africa…”

          Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah…stop please, you’re killing me! Hahahahahahahahahahah oh my word hahahahahahahahahahahahah no, wait… hahahahahahahahahahahah hold on, just let me catch my breath…. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah nononono hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

          (I trust I made my point?)

        • Graham

          Thanks Adam for your reply. Read ‘Guns, Germs and Steel’ Yes Whites did inhabit North Africa in Roman times. They formed part of the Mediterranean Basin culture. I will accept that I’m wrong if shown evidence or given references.

        • AdamLucifer

          Certainly white “inhabited” North Africa when Europeans invaded. Some Black people “inhabited” Britain at the time, also (in the main) arriving with the Romans. Would you claim that such black inhabitants were “native” to England as you have suggested white people were to N Africa? If so, I direct you to my previous response!

        • Graham

          This is an interesting debate. If you can give me some references to further the discussion it would help. I, of course, cannot be absolutely sure of being correct (and nor can you) and will admit it if wrong.

          As for your previous post it it not a response but rather a reaction. Ridicule adds nothing and is for the uncouth which I hope you’re not.

        • WarthogARJ

          Graham,
          This is interesting. Who do you mean by “Whites in North Africa”. Do you mean Carthage? But they were Phoenician. Or the Berbers? I think them, right?

          But you are right: lots of movement of people thru Africa. Hard to say who was really “first”.

        • Graham

          I base my assertion on ‘Guns, Germs and Steel’ a very informative book. Also ‘The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire’ by Gibbon. The current inhabitants are more recent arrivals after the Roman Empire declined. By Whites I mean what are today referred to as Europeans. I see the Mediterranean basin or rim as being inhabited on both sides of the sea in Roman times by similar people with the sea routes holding them together.

          Thanks for the reply. It’s an interesting subject but this is not the forum to debate it. Perhaps some other place and time.

        • Wim Kotze

          No. Nelson is a Thembu, and his country was and is known as the Transkei, 1000km away from Johannesburg or Cape Town. He and his tribesmen came from far and wide to squat on the white mans doorstep, and eventually outbred them 10 to 1. Now they claim and rule over land where they never were, whilst playing overlord over people who have very little in common with their tribal barbarity.

        • NO MORE

          Poor Harry and the rest of the sods claiming Whites stole the country from the poor blacks. Need I remind you that when whites arrived in Africa, the wheel has not even been invented here!
          Everything you see in South Africa was built by whites and white enginuity.
          Where there are whites, there are prosperity, where there are blacks, it is absolute chaos – See the rest of Black Africa.
          Everything that was destoyed since ANC rule is as a result of African mentality, unethical behavour and inferiour mentality.
          Open the newspaper and read about all the chaos, corruption , rape and murder. 99.9% done by blacks and black “leaders, or do you and argue with these fact as well???
          Education and health is a mess, transport and sanitation is a mess. The police force and military is a joke, all thanks to Black leadership ( rather the lack of it) and corruption.
          We build this country and we allowed Mandela to walk out of prison. Do not for once think that we cannot reclaim it all again.
          He is a terrorist that instructed bombs to go off and kill innocent civilians. He is no different that Bin Laden or Sadam Hussain.
          Am I a racist?? Dont think so, Do I hate what the ANC has done to my country – absolutely yes.

        • NCEDO GADDAFI PAPI

          you might call it prosperity but we call it white trash, everything you brought in Africa is a disease and a curse, in sierra leone African people died because of diamonds, some they never seen in their life, in Iraqi people died for oil they cant even afford to use, Libya they went and killed Maummar because he wanted united stated of africa and wanted to kick out imperialist out of motherland, the chaos you talk about is brought by the same demons who invaded our land in the 16th century, everything a white man touch brings chaos to my people, you brought diseases to our land

        • Charl

          It seems to me you do not approve of white people, you are the very reason my country South Africa will never heal. Stop looking back, two decades have past and you still hang on to apartheid as an excuse for everything wrong in this country. Africa has absolutely no chance without the white man, please look at the current state of African countries led by your so called real Africans. You my friend are a sad little racist, angry that the white African exists and simply won’t leave your home. I got news for you, white people in South Africa are as African as you are and we are not going anywhere. South Africa can be a world economic force if we all work together, black or white. Look forward, stop blaming apartheid, blame corruption and violence, blame the government, blame poverty. TWO DECADES, move on for God’s sake.

        • suscol

          So innocent black citizens slaughtered over decades for fighting for basic human rights, are not people Abby? Your kind of thinking is exactly what forced the armed struggle in the first place.

        • grassroot

          Of the 21000 black deaths
          caused by political violence throughout the years of apartheid 518 were caused by
          security forces. That means 97 percent of all political killing of black people
          were done BY blacks and 3 percent were done by security forces. Put in another
          context, security forces were hunting those who were politically orientated in London and trained in terrorism and subversion in Soviet union to be let loose like rabid hyenas on the hapless black populations in
          southern Africa.

        • grassroot

          “The media” were tasked to obfuscate the grass roots realities
          of southern Africa and twist it into this farcical, ridiculous lopsided
          cartoon where, eventually, a Nobel peace prize is given to a leader of an
          organisation that had thousands of children burnt to death as a political
          strategy to intimidate the local black populations. “The media”, of course,
          more or less from the same vile lair as that which so loudly agitated for the
          criminal invasion of Iraq in 2003. Remember?…. “No weapons of mass
          destruction here”

        • AdamLucifer

          “a Nobel peace prize is given to a leader of an
          organisation that had thousands of children burnt to death as a political
          strategy”

          Really? I had no idea that De Klerk did such things. But certainly you are correct in decrying the farcical award of a Nobel Peace Prize to such a person.

        • JIM BOB

          NELSON WANK … TRUST ME !

        • brian

          What propaganda nonsense. Of the over 200 deaths caused by the June 1976 Soweto massacre on teenage children, and the over 250 deaths caused by the Sharpville massacre, were those black on black violence, or was it not the apartheid forces that unleashed those bullets on unarmed black citizens. What of the Boipatong massacre of 1992. Is it not true that the apartheid regime had a hand in arming the murderers who unleashed violence on unarmed men women and children. The list of white Afrikaner brutality is endless.

        • Wim Kotze

          Please also tell us about the numbers burned by those poor innocent teenagers. Your Sharpville statistics is wrong and you forgot to mention the Marikana slaughter. Bantu barbarism is enduring.

        • Clarence the X-eyed Lion

          ‘Bantu Barbarism…’ well, well, well. That’s rich coming from someone who is obviously white. Think of the native Americans that were wiped out with the same nonchalance that their buffalo was wiped out with by non-Bantus.

          Or the concentration camps that 6 MILLION Jews were systematically executed in by a non-Bantu ‘superior race!’ Huh… unbelievable!

        • Wim Kotze

          My comment did not refer to ghetto negro mythology. Stick to the facts at hand.

        • NCEDO GADDAFI PAPI

          wim i challenge you to a debate, if you are anywhere in my land let me know how to get hold of you

        • Wim Kotze

          A bantu with the name Gaddafi can’t be serious,and a Papi can only be decendant from a makwerekwere. Or do you have inside information on the loot Mandela got from the scoundrel Gaddafi?

        • Justin McBride

          He is sticking to the facts, you made a claim that people of a particular group are barbaric, and he made the counter claim that you group you identify with “Whites” have killed a thousand times as many people. Who is more barbaric…

        • Wim Kotze
        • CVD

          All I can say is that I am fed up hearing this. Nobody talks about how worse crime is now. Muder, crime and rape these days are much worse that those days. Not to even talk about the corrupt government. Really doesn’t seem to me that things got better, it got worse

        • Justin McBride

          where have you being, people talk about those issues every day???

        • grassroot

          Brian parrots the gross misrepresentation that he picked up
          from his inane staring at the TV.
          In Soweto it was the average black people, who generally had very good relations with whites,
          who called in the security forces when the INSTIGATED hooligan rioters were starting to become violent and destructive. In Sharpville the police station
          was attacked by panga wielding aggressors using women as a shield and most of the policemen in the station were black.
          The killers in Boipatong were in fact blacks.

        • CVD

          very interesting comment – thanks

        • AdamLucifer

          You are making the hugely unwarranted (and unsupportable) assumption that ALL killings of black people not carried out by the security forces were done by other black people. That is self-evidently absurd to anyone who is not blinkered by their own prejudices.

        • grassroot

          No, you are just confused because The reality of southern Africa
          does Not correspond to the absolute crap you pick up from the blaring Idiot
          box. At least 90 percent of all political turmoil in “South
          Africa” was/is instigated, provoked,
          fomented by foreign agencies and forces for various agendas. Black people and
          Afrikaners have always had relatively congenial relations were it not for this conniving, slithering cabal supported by their slimy Wormtongue media.

        • Justin McBride

          BOL

        • Bob

          Most this twaddle is inaccurate! For full details of the whole tragedy of our sadly divided nation and the reasons for its devision, try Googling; “Sarah – Maid of Albion” and her highly controversial article, ‘Mandela – the truth’ it will shock (and surprise) you, all of you, (Black, White, Indian, Coloured or any other colour you may choose)

        • Promise

          This is false. Please do not lie. If you do not know …just ask. Charlatan!

        • AdamLucifer

          “the moment you destroy property and INNOCENT people are killed, are they then not terrorist?”

          The Apartheid regime did all this and more. Were they then not terrorists? And given that they only maintained power through violence and oppression of the minority, what do you suppose would be an adequate (and effective) response?

        • Wim Kotze

          “The Apartheid regime did all this and more”.
          Your sources are questionable, that is if you have sources other than Bantu thumb-sucking.

        • AdamLucifer

          So your position is that the Apartheid regime did not destroy any property or kill any innocent people, Herr Kotze? You must have been distraught that the rabid blusterings of the egotistical and oafish Fuhrer Terreblanche came to nothing!

        • Wim Kotze

          Of average Bantu IQ, are you?

        • Tracey Nixon

          Gah! Gah! Gah!

          WHAT building did he blow up, exactly? What people did he kill, exactly?

          I am going to be generous and blame your lack of knowledge of actual South African history on the fact that, like me, you also learned a one-sided and inaccurate version of it at the hands of the Apartheid schooling system, but please, try to learn the rest of it, now.

        • Justin

          get your facts straight, see here a chronology of events

          http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mandela/mandelachronology.html

          at the time of the Rivona trial, Madiba was in jail (solitary confinement) for 5 years for leaving the country without a passport and organizing a strike. (note, not for blowing up a building).

          Mandela however, did argue for a military / armed struggle, and rightly so. However, In June
          1961, Mandela sent to South African newspapers a letter warning that a
          new campaign would be launched unless the government agreed to call for
          a national constitutional convention.

          Of course, they didn’t, but I guess you guys believed that we should have get begging the bully to change without fighting back.

          Luckily, the oppressed did not and started its campaign in dec 1961 with explosions at an electric substation. Which is a valid military target, though I am not in agreement that the struggle was limited to so called military targets.

          then, in January 1962, mandela left the country to gain support for the struggle overseas.

          after his return in october he was arrested. hence, the majority of the armed struggle was not under his supervision. Hence, he was not arrested for killing innocent people. (I wonder what your definition of innocent is??)

          And no, when a person is oppressed, his people denied human rights, his family starving, and his oppressor refusing to change his way, when that person takes up the struggle and fights back against obvious injustice, they are not then terrorist.

          If that person launches a bomb into enemy territory, that does not make him a terrorist. When an “innocent” person associates and enables the evil oppressor and gets hit with the bomb that kills the evil oppressor, that still does not make him a terrorist.

          the terrorists are those people that help, enable and condone a systematic eradication of human rights, of abuses, of imprisonment, starvation and death of a entire group of people arbitrary based on they skin colour and curliness of hair, those are the people that are terrorist. The people that fight that system of terror are liberators and heroes…

          http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mandela/mandelaaccount.html

    • AK

      WOW – that 36+ people are agreeing with you – as in 36 people could be so ignorant about what happened in SA but not acknowledge that fact by just staying away from this conversation.
      There was no democratic channel for changing anything. Renouncing “terrorism” (a word you should always think twice whenever you read it) meant going back to the zoned townships, be herded and controlled like sheep while living in abject poverty in your own land. If interested, read “the state of Africa”…

    • suscol

      He refused to renounce violence as long as the apartheid regime visited violence – murder and mahem actually – on the black citizens of South Africa. Simple – practice what you preach. What you say above is a standard piece of propaganda to white-wash (so to speak) the criminal behaviour of the then government of South Africa.

    • Maximus

      Not that simple. His answer to the oppressive government at the time was he could not in good conscience accept their offer of ‘freedom’ when millions of his countrymen were still being discriminated against and oppressed under the apartheid system.

    • AdamLucifer

      And all the South African government had to do was renounce Apartheid.

    • Johann Robbertze

      If your readers need the perspective, find it here;http://blog.robbertze.com/2010/05/02/mandela-the-legend-and-the-legacy-2/

    • mammal

      That’s because the fascist white government wanted a complete monopoly on violence. They were greedy like that. All things considered he was remarkably restrained. See Mugabe for a comparison.

    • thula

      Im sorry, who are you to call what happened “terrorism”. the early founders of the ANC and other political icons in my country tried for decades to change the mindset of the white minority leaders while they humiliated and tortured them. Do not dare call it terrorism as if what happened to Black South Africans for more than 400 years was better.

    • uNKABINDE

      stupid idiot

    • Solo Arttist

      So you wanted him to say he was a terrorist? Which he wasn’t? The apartheid govt hated blacks with a passion, there was no way this country could have been free without violent actions or at least a willingness to go violent. Matter of fact,in other african countries ,majority rule only came after fully fledged wars! Mandela was NEVER a terrorist, he was a fighter,fighting the hateful regime of the day! Yet he sought peaceful ways of bringing about democracy. He chose to negotiate, spoke for millions of us who were oppressed and your calling him a terrorist?? If you can’t see the good in Mandela then your obviously as hatefull as that regime, sadly here in South Africa we will still treat you as one of us,hoping the example and spirit of love that was in Mandela may one day find you

      • praise

        GOOD

    • 3007

      You have a peanut brain

    • J

      He refused because at that stage it was imperative for the anti-apartheid movement to use violence as a means of pressing the government into taking action about Human Rights abuse within SA. They tried civil disobedience by having sit-ins on benches marked “Whites Only”, by using bathrooms reserved for White people and generally using all public services meant for the White race. The police met their efforts with brutality. They beat-up and arrested participants in this movement. They were simply not willing to negotiate. Nothing succeeded in getting their attention. Violence was the ANC’s last resort and violence actually helped them obtain the government’s attention. Had it not been for the decision to try a more harsher tactic, SA could still be in the same spot today.

    • Peachy

      he didnt commit terrorism though… so why say “I am a terrorist” when you aren’t…

    • MR SAY

      Remember he was sentenced to life. They would have let him go if he agreed to denounce the campaign against Apartheid.

    • pacaratac

      It wa specifically VIOLENCE that he refused to renounce. Worse was that once he was released from jail he did absolutely NOTHING to undo the strategy of violence that he instigate. mandela truly is the father of violence in South Africa and today SA still reels from his terrible legacy.

    • Ian

      Renounce terrorism and leave everything else the same, i.e continued murder of innocent black women and children by whites, jobs reservation act that disqualified a black from being a pilot even if he/she was fit for the job, blacks not being able to buy real estate in designated areas even if they could afford it. You may be ‘Big Leo’ but there is two things that are nano in you. One is in your head and the other is in the genetic makeup of whites between your legs.

    • Kampanga

      nonsense

    • Franna

      Well, all this no longer matters, he’s dead now. I spoke to a doctor who examined him in hospital, he’s braindead. The ANC are keeping his body alive with machines, probably until the next election is over. He did a remarkable job of uniting South Africa and keeping the peace for 20 years! Now, the next stage in the history of the RSA has already started:
      The honeymoon is finally over and the chickens are coming home to roost……More than half of the country’s population is still living in abject poverty; bribery and corruption are rife (including the president)! Service delivery is getting worse every year. Only 10% of people are paying taxes and subsidising everyone else. Sooner or later something’s gotta give…..

    • Trollstein

      Which “terrorism” do you refer to? The British style, which means any military action whatsoever, not recognized by THEM as representing a government they themselves recognize, or, the Standard American style, namely, deliberate targeting of civilians?

    • Anon

      That is because in those days anyone who spoke against apartheid was labelled “terrorist” by the regime and those who supported it. What we all know as “fighting for freedom” was regarded as terrorism

    • Sylvester M. Azane Kodwo

      Go through the history of all the nations on this planet which fought for independence, including the U S A. Colonialists and ‘supremacists’ never let go easily, until they are forced!

      Independence by dialogue never worked anywhere until a bit of resistance was attached. Then they label you a terrorist.

    • Sharah

      and that say more about the man than anything else. he chose to stay rather than deny what he knew in his heart to be true. i long for the days when we had leaders we could be proud of. now i skip the news cause all i hear is bra mac trying to interpret what Zuma says( in English) kinda like the sign language moron at the memorial.

    • yahoo

      and he did not “give up 30 yrs of his life”, he earned it by his actions, and hid and ran till he was caught. in other countries he would not have been PAMPERED in prison- (Russian firing squad, Alcatraz prison, Mexican rat holes, etc….. ). he helped mess up the haven of Africa Bigtime.

  • Johy English

    Big Leo – there was NO democratic way of opposing the brutal regime of Apartheid – NO vote for the majority of the people, safe demonstration, petition – no legal address for the inequality based on skin-colour.

    • Big Leo

      Yes there was. Demonstrations, strikes, and the support of a good proportion of white voters was the way to go. If you undertake a terrorist program, you will be properly treated as a terrorist.

      • anne

        Strikes, marches, demonstrations, even belonging to the ANC, SACP or Umkonto we Sizwe were illegal and punishable. A demo by students in Cape Town resulted in their being chased into St George’s Cathedral, dragged out by police and beaten with batons and whips. Live ammunition was used against demonstrators as was purple tinted water from high pressure hoses. But a graffito The Purple Shall Govern appeared on a city wall a few days later. Americans don’t understand how few rights they take for granted existed in South Africa. If journalists witnessed an act of resistance, they were supposed to leave the area and had to apply to the police to write about it, and were usually refused. White voters who opposed the government were in a few urban constituencies where their votes were worth little.

        • Big Leo

          Sorry. No government can allow acts of terrorism. Since the ANC preached terrorism and practiced it, there could not even be a start to negotiating with them until they renounced it.

        • Kejoy

          Incidentally, there could not have been an earlier negotiated agreement because the cry was always, “We want it all and we want it now.” To agree to negotiation would have been seen as capitulation of the whites.

        • Wax_Lyrical

          yet they agreed to negotiate eventually,.Are’nt we contradicting ourselves now?

        • Justin

          they agreed only after all political parties were unbanned…

          You really don’t know…

        • bob

          y do you think the apartheid government was hated—–duh cos it practiced terrorism and all that stuff—-it was the LAW that black ppl got treated badly —-if the ANC practiced terrorism as soon as they got into power, they would have terrorised ppl—but they didnt

        • Truth

          they didn’t? http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html
          educate yourself

        • idontekno

          all i see is white farmers this white farmers that then politics, there’s nothing about genocide, there are more people dying from car accidents, robberies, etc than attacks on farm, genocide is what happened in the nazi concentration camps, in Rwanda…white people who benefited from apartheid are quick to cry foul, nobody categorized the death of black people in the apartheid as genocide, now you want to tell me the death of white farmers in remote areas a genocide? It is wrong in any given time to commit crimes, why can’t we accept it as crime, seeking attention calling it genocide, nobody is going out specifically to kill all white people in the country, that would be genocide. Educate yourself around the prejudices that people who attack the farms have against the farmers, then you are getting closer to the problem, it is no one but the ANC governments fault farmers are being killed, they preached things they couldn’t deliver, like expropriation of land. A soul is a soul whether black or white, if we could just stop there and stop playing victim and aggressor, and stop labeling any type of killing as this and that,we will get a lot of things done in this country. It is very clear that an immense number of of white people are disgruntled and were never ready to embrace any type of racial integration. Which is why they console themselves by distancing themselves from any negatives the country has and refer back to the glory days when they impinged on the African’s rights. I’m not interested in politics and I taker a South African view of things, and never have I been an ANC supporter but I will stand for the preservation and accuracy of our history.

        • Justin McBride

          ANC had 20 plus years of non-violent protest, where did that get them. Its easy to be the one saying that the other side should not employ violence, as it is illegitimate, meanwhile your side can employ violence as often as it likes… Hypocritical, but easy…

        • Justin McBride

          yes, and no self respecting can allow a government to discriminate against him on basis of skin colour and not fight against that got.

          You forget about the 20 years of peaceful demonstrations before sharpville, which was met with violence…?

        • Truth

          membership to a self proclaimed “military arm of the ANC” that claimed responsibility for countless bombings was illegal … wow how unreasonable, how many Americans expect royal treatment after bombing things and being members of Al-Qaeda?

        • idontekno

          you clearly lack intellectual discernment, the US vs Al-Qaeda is clearly over your head, you lack political know how in your own domestic sphere and attempt to use a matter so foreign to you to justify an issue you clearly have a biased opinion on. It was illegal yes, to you dear white bureaucrat, just as much as your apartheid was illegal to the rest of sound and reasoning human beings. Did you know it was illegal for a group of black people to stand together in the street regardless of what the reason was? Ofcourse the uMkhonto we Sizwa and POQO were illegal, did you expect your father and grandfather to stand watch and approve military arms representing the very same race they abhor and suppress? You are uninitiated and very naive with your flawed logic, the MK and Poqo were found around the same time due to exigent circumstances, for decades and decades our people had been trying to reason without avail, the killings and torture of detainees, women and children was the last straw. I understand there are atrocities about our history that don’t quiet fit your image as a white person now, in any case it’s my history if you don’t want to acknowledge it thats your problem, you deal with it, I’m not carrying baggage from the past, I’m going to strive to make this country a better place, for our children black or white. I give you back your problem.

        • Truth

          yes i was very much aware it was illegal for blacks to associate in the streets, your point? in what civilized society is the targeting of innocent civilians for killing considered “ok”? the most interesting part of your apparent rebuttal, a failed one i hasten to add, is your assumptions w.r.t. my race, background and political persuasions … killing of innocents for WHATEVER CAUSE is NOT HEROIC, if you disagree, well then we will never see eye to eye sir

          if you mean to ascertain the so called “previously disadvantaged” are justified in their incessant raping of the nation and corruption most foul, despite being in absolute control of the country for longer than proper apartheid laws existed (that’s right, 1970 onward, before then the laws were mild in comparison), then good day, we can both watch the beautiful rainbow nation go to hell in a handbasket, because regardless of my opinion, or indeed yours, that is where it is heading, and despite the “great madiba” legacy, he killed innocents, just like the old regime, FACT

        • idontekno

          oh well i tried, you win.

        • Justin McBride

          Well, if you can’t see that fighting to remove an oppressive regime is legitimate, then you’re right, we can not see eye to eye.

          You must must have boo’ed Mel Gibson everytime you watched Braveheart.

      • Mike

        No, there wasn’t… even demonstrations were illegal in South Africa. You should really inform yourself.

      • brian

        We Africans wanted one man one vote. That is something even the Americans fought for under Geroge Washington.And to make it even more compelling in a country of our birth we did note have a fundamental civil right of a vote. That was worth arming ones self to achieve. Stop that nonsense of double speak, We did not want white support sympathy or patronage. We wanted the same rights as the whites on an equal footing of one man one vote, SIMPLE AND CLARA.

        • Wim Kotze

          And you have all those rights under your Bantu chiefs? Shouldn’t you progress beyond your stone age culture first?

        • Justin McBride

          Even on your standards, Wimmie, this was an exceptional idiotic reply.

        • Wim Kotze

          Pleased that I could entertain you. Of course it sounds far fetched for one raised on the PC rainbow nation myths, but history is not only what you pretend it to be. Please read George McCall Theal’s histories of South Africa to get an idea what SA was like before apartheid.
          PS. Should I now refer to you as Juicy, as the mush in your head?

        • Justin McBride

          By the way, though I don’t identify myself in terms of race, I would not be classified as “black” in terms of your racist ideology, though I would identify myself as a bantu (meaning person) and a African, meaning a person born in Africa.

          Hence, I don’t have tribal leaders, and I doubt that someone with the name of Brian would have either.

          However, be that as it may, was just point out that your trying to bring things down to the level of name calling, failed.

          Not going to get involved when people can not argue a point and just want to resort to name calling.

          Brian made a valid point, we wanted self determination for all humans, one man one vote. We did not want the oppressor to hand out little concessions while remaining oppressors, we wanted equality amongst humans.

        • Wim Kotze

          “… Wimmie, this was an exceptional idiotic reply”. Don’t do as I do, do as I say? Obviously mush.

        • Justin McBride

          Bol, your reply was idiotic, as it made no sense and did not address any of the issues raided. However, if you want to take that to mean that you are idiotic, well then, if the shoe fits, lace that mother up and wear it…

      • Joe

        Those strikes & demonstrations you are talking about
        were acts of defiance, not democracy. What are u smoking?????

    • Big Leo

      By the way, the ANC seldom targeted whites except for isolated farm families, whom they murdered tortured and raped. Radical ANC groups continue to do that today and have killed over four thousand farmers since independence. They mostly burned alive their Black political opponents. On the day that Tutu was ordained Archbishop, the ANC burned nine women for witchcraft.

      • Wax_Lyrical

        I never knew the ANC claimed responsibility for raping and torturing white farmers? when was this again? Politically charged black on black violence was never sanctioned by the ANC, nor other liberation movements whether black, indian or white…most politically charged fatalities we those involving people who were believed to be informers.

        • Truth

          http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

          they sanction the violence, it would be idiotic, yes even for them, to admit it …

        • idontekno

          all i see is white farmers this white farmers that then politics, there’s nothing about genocide, there are more people dying from car accidents, robberies, etc than attacks on farm, genocide is what happened in the nazi concentration camps, in Rwanda…white people who benefited from apartheid are quick to cry foul, nobody categorized the death of black people in the apartheid as genocide, now you want to tell me the death of white farmers in remote areas a genocide? It is wrong in any given time to commit crimes, why can’t we accept it as crime, seeking attention calling it genocide, nobody is going out specifically to kill all white people in the country, that would be genocide. Educate yourself around the prejudices that people who attack the farms have against the farmers, then you are getting closer to the problem, it is no one but the ANC governments fault farmers are being killed, they preached things they couldn’t deliver, like expropriation of land. A soul is a soul whether black or white, if we could just stop there and stop playing victim and aggressor, and stop labeling any type of killing as this and that,we will get a lot of things done in this country. It is very clear that an immense number of of white people are disgruntled and were never ready to embrace any type of racial integration. Which is why they console themselves by distancing themselves from any negatives the country has and refer back to the glory days when they impinged on the African’s rights. I’m not interested in politics and I taker a South African view of things, and never have I been an ANC supporter but I will stand for the preservation and accuracy of our history.

        • Truth

          so the plain and simple fact that black on white murders outnumber the national average by more than double means nothing to you? even if it hit the average it would be suspect given the minority than whites represent, white murders should be below the national average if there was no specific targeting, simple math …

        • suscol
        • idontekno

          in a land where there are 40 Million Africans vs 4 Million Whites, it would be more shocking if there were more White on African murders, wouldn’t you think? …

        • Justin McBride

          besides which, by that logic, it would mean that any time a “white” kills a “black” it would be as a result of the boerebund official sanction to kill all blacks.

          it is not ANC policy, and maybe they should do more to stop it, but that does not make it an official policy.

          Maybe its because they are soft targets. There are a lot more murders in townships, and poorer areas, does that make it ANC policy?

          The facts outlined by you does not irretrievably bring about the conclusion you propose.

      • tswanachic

        Where are the names of all these murdered people???? in these times we can honestly start looking in folks who owned farms for 50yrs and suddenly disappeared no??? just asking?

      • Graham

        Never targeted whites! I was at Addington Hospital the day the victims of the Amanzimtoti bomb blast were brought in. Andrew Zondo the coward who killed and maimed by the terrorist’s proxy – the bomb – was hanged for murder. Whites were killed in Church, in Magoo’s Pub, in bowling clubs and in Church Street, Pretoria……….

      • suscol

        Big Leo, you are a liar. That you probably believe what you say makes it even sadder.

        • Big Leo

          No. I’m a historian. You are the liar.

        • Justin McBride

          made up facts, or wishful thinking about the past does not make you a historian

    • shawn

      John English makes the most valuable points in this stream of comments. Read or listen to Mandela’s testimony in mitigation of sentence when he was facing the death sentence in 1962. He doesn’t deny his involvement in acts which certainly would be termed terrorism today. He, rather than pleading for the mercy of the court to spare his life as he was advised by counsel, courageously makes a historically very important case for what happens when the rights of the affected are ignored, the affected are the majority and all other forms of recourse are deemed illegal. The tough thing to accept today is that there are times when terrorist acts are justified. No disrespect for the innocent victims back then and certainly no disrespect to more recent terrorist victims who typically have had no links to the oppressor groups the terrorists are rebelling against. Google for the voice recording or transcripts from 1962 and make up your own mind.

    • Graham

      Unfortunately for us in South Africa the machinery of segregation was put in place here in Durban in the British Colony of Natal by ‘home’ born British settlers. Pass laws, permission to seek work, residence permission were all in place by 1875. Then the British set up three ‘Bantustans’ (Basutoland, Swaziland and Bechuanaland) under the guise of ‘Protectorates- as a means to manage the natives. All that happened was South Africa followed suit and gave the system a name. Yes we did try Bantustans but could not lower ourselves to go the whole hog and set up Concentration Camps.

  • vlad

    Johy English : have you ever heard of Ghandi? :)

  • Andrew

    Very true, Vlad.
    But have you ever heard of Steven Biko?

  • Piet Van Der Riet

    Did you know he has been likened to Jesus by some folks in S A ?

    I know he can’t walk on water , nor can he change water into wine… But who knows…

    Maybe he will rise on the third day and ascend to heaven forty days later….

    • Graham

      I can turn wine into water!

  • Gugla Mamphemba Mjisa

    Rolinhlanhla means the lucky one in Xhosa, you wrong eeeeh

    • anne

      It’s Rolihlahla and it means trouble maker, literaly one who uproots the bushes.

      • Wax_Lyrical

        it does’not mean troublemaker it’s a very very loose translation, troublemaker is injubaqa.

  • slasha666

    No 11 of Things You Probably Didn’t Know About Nelson Mandela,
    “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians; without the resolution of conflicts in East Timor, the Sudan and other parts of the world.”
    -President Nelson Mandela
    The International Day Of Solidarity With The Palestinian People (1997)

  • brente

    and he was a murdering terrorist who love to burn those that opposed him to death by necklacing them(look it up)

    • tswanachic

      you need to get your facts right hey…. wow….. was this him or winnie???

      you need a hug shame man!!!

      • zumalicious

        Hoe does it matter if it was he or she? did he ever condemn it if it were exclusively her actions? How could he not know about a major political and militant decision like that? I’d be extremely unhappy if my wife did that to a cat whilst I was at work, not to mention a human being…!

  • KENETH

    rubbissh.he legalised homosexuality.these are values of the whites who then made him an icon on cnn,bbc,sky news.he cant even be compared with other african leaders.and spending many years in jail is no heroism.its not like he went there volunatarily to be detained.he was forcibly detained like any other fighter of the struggle.his detainers determined how long he stayed in there and where he would be kept.now that removes the alleged heroism for being detained.for all his stay in jail,he did nothing for south africa.he leaglised an ungodly thing an unafrican thing,homosexuality.no wonder winnie wont forgive him for betraying safrica

    • BOB

      he is a great man, because he fought peacefully, and without violence. and when he came into power, hedidnt kil all the ‘whites’ or completely reverse the system. We easily coud have gotten a south africa, where the ‘blacks’ took all their land and gold, and money back from the whites, and left them with nothing. He also could easily have killed all of them, like what happened in rwanda. BUT HE DIDNT, THAT IS WHAT MAKES HIM A GREAT MAN.

      • KENETH

        he licked the whites asses,full stop

      • captcrunch

        He fought peacefully and without violence? Are you on drugs? I also don’t know what kind of legacy he is leaving since South Africa is a mess of a society even though there is so much natural resources, land, minerals, etc. The country has so much going for itself if it could only stop the violence and the black vs. whites thinking.

      • Truth

        which part of all the bombings, necklacing, killings and countless victims were ‘peaceful’??????

        • johny m

          Which revolution in history was peacefull?

        • Truth

          how do you think the Berlin wall ultimately came down?

        • Wim Kotze

          By “necklacing” border guards?

      • Wim Kotze

        Tell your “didn’t kill” fairy tale to the slaughtred Zulus of Shell House.
        What do you mean by “taking back”? The Bantu have been “taking back” since their first contact with whites. Its called stealing in the real world.

    • johny m

      How does homosexuality fit in the scheme of things?Crminalizing it makes it more rampant.lf a grown up wants to sleep with a fellow grown up,where do you come in?Stop pretending and move on!

  • Ericsson Mwamboje

    Mandela is a great man indeed!!!

  • williejohn99

    Poeple say prison doesnt work yet Mandela did his 30yrs and never re offended.

    • bob

      he didnt technicly offend in the first place, u idiot

      • Truth

        hundreds of innocent people died by his hand and under his orders, the fact that he chose to call it freedom fighting does not mean there was no offence … or do you honestly believe a crude pipe bomb on a crowded beach front only targets apartheid supporters? idiot!

  • KENETH

    mandela is a whutemn ‘s puppet,period

  • Wax_Lyrical

    [1. Mandela’s tribal nickname is “Rolihlahla,” meaning “Troublemaker.”]

    A child’s name is bestowed upon him/her by the family, and not by a “tribe” nor does it signify the “tribe” he belongs to; whatever that means, we don’t have such things as tribal names in our culture…Rolihlahla is his birth name, nothing more nothing less…the use of word “tribe/tribal” in itself is condescending and malicious as it’s been a construct of colonialism used to denigrate inhabitants to “savages”. It’s my understanding that in no way whatsoever is the article intended to be of malicious nature but solely for educational purposes, but the phrasing of point 1 is just wrong beyond any justification, particularly for an article promoting historical knowledge…or is this where it becomes Mystory and History?

  • messenger

    no…BUT cecill Rhodes from her royal majesty had a big illuminati finger in south africas pie

  • http://www.facebook.com/glmoyo Gideon Moyo

    this interpretation is very wrong…Rolihlahla…. simply means pull a branch (where? we dont know)

    • Guest

      they read it on the internet and forget some of us speak the language and still they don’t want to be corrected.

  • Boer007

    One of his most successful achievements was killing innocent woman and children with a bomb he planted. He also ushered in a season of unseen rape and murder in a country that could once be compared with any first world country.

    • LaCosta

      No Boer007. Your slant is altogether wrong. Fighting for freedom is like colonizing. Remember what the white colonists did to the Indians in America? Australia, NewZealand in fact EVERYWHERE that they have been they have left chaos in their wake! In every war, unfortunately, there will be casualties. The Black people in SA were FIGHTING for their rights. We can only hope that when Madiba passes, old wounds will not be opened.

      • Boer007

        I hope so for your sake. It would be a pity to loose the “freedom” directly after his death.

        • LaCosta

          No, I mean for white people in South Africa. Remember that most africans in SA believe Madiba was too lenient to the oppressor.

        • Boer007

          Yeap. I know. It is said that there will be a night of the long knives bla bla bla. I never thought this could become a reality. Just like the vast majority of white south africans that voted YES for black freedom in 1992.

          Instead of thanking us, they still feel we are the ones causing them to suffer. It doesnt take much brains to realize that the bulk of the current suffering and poverty is to be blamed on ANC corruption. But still. It will always be the white man’s fault. Almost as redicilous as saying all germans are nazis.

        • Boerewitman1

          Dit is sinneloos om met hierdie soort element te kommunikeer.. Hy verstaan dit of nie, of het nie die vermoeëns nie. ‘n Lee blik maak die meeste geraas.

        • Justin

          Well its people like the two of you that makes most “blacks” want to kill “whites”. Just saying, if everyone was like the two of you with your racist condescending attitudes, well. would you really blame them….

    • idontekno

      “One of his most successful achievements” – if you actually went to school and academically armed yourself, you’d make more sense…see what occupying your time with nonsensical talk and scratching your testicles “successfully achieves”? … the benefits of apartheid; teaching english in afrikaans = FAIL!

      • Boer007

        You sound like a genius.

  • ZULUJACK

    TERRORIST

  • Yvonne Horak

    The Church street bomb that killed and injured innocent civilians was approved by Mandela. Mandela. This is true- There are documents to prove this. Mandela started and formed the Miltary wing of Umkhonto We Sizwe.
    ALL the dozens of bombs by this Wing of the ANC killed only Civilians!. !Magoos Bar, Restaurants. Landmines on Public Roads used by parents to ferry children/farmers . THAT is other side of the coin which the MEDIA and all the Mandela fans forget about or are unaware of the the facts. London knows what it feels like if a City is bombed and INNOCENT Civlians of all Races are killed! Well South Africa has those bombs as well!

  • Yvonne Horak

    George Washington and others did not approve the bombing of Innocent Civilians.! Did you condone the Bombers in London? South Africa went through that same experience. Innocent Civilians targeted NOT the Military and we had more bombs than London and more landmines on Public rural roads used by Civilian families taking children to school and also farming Communities. NOT roads used by the Defence Forces!

  • Truth

    How about adding facts about the many who were killed under his orders? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe

  • Roland

    lm stil trying to figure out what tangible thing he actually did for black south africans. lm not sure if Steve Biko and Oliver Tambo would be pleased with the economic parameters in south africa today.

  • Aldo

    I found it funny that the people here try to re-write history…this is more MIS-INFORMATION than bulletproof argument. You basically saying the all world support a man who was a terrorist and kill innocent people. The article say at some point that he gave up 30 year of his live. Sorry he did not gave up his life, he was force into going to prison and killing him would have bring a bloodbath in SA. he WAS JAILED FOR HIS IDEAS.

    • Lol

      he was not jailed for his ideas, he was jailed for terrorism and plantings bombs. the Church street bomb, the Pretoria bomb, his work. working together with the communists trying to take over the country and forcing war in Agola. he was jailed for a reason, not because of an idea. please understand correctly, i have loads of respect for him for coming out of jail en being the person he was. not holding a grudge and truely trying to make a difference.He was the best possible man for the position as South Africa’s first democratic president. one of the proudest south african moments is still of him in a sprinbok jersey at the 1995 rugby world cup. Mandela deserves all the recognition he gets, but saying he never did wrong or killed innocent people is lying.

      • Justin McBride

        Lol, those events you mentioned was after he was jailed. Did the SAPS have clairvoyants in their employee that allowed them to jail Mandela before the crimes had been committed. And if they did, how did those crimes get committed?

  • the youth

    As a white youth living in SA why should i suffer under BBE, mismanagement, corruption and racial prejudice? Did i persecute anybody? No, did my family? No. Yet many white citizens are victims of racial bias everyday. Those from outside countries should not dare comment on the current situation. Mandela did over throw a racist movement only to replace it with an equally as racist, if undercover, movement. Whether it was his doing or other corrupt officials is up to you to decide but in his stronger years he did nothing to stop it. Agree or disagree this country is a joke and our sport will be the next thing down the tube. Racism is racism either way and it should not be tolerated, black, white, indian, or coloured.

    • idontekno

      I like your name “the youth”

  • Graham

    Ten Facts that should be Known

    1. The word has it that he was not a good Attorney.
    2. He was not a good terrorist – he was easily caught.
    3. He ordered the armed struggle and was declared a terrorist (along with the ANC) by the UN.
    4. Likes to sing songs in public such as ‘Kill the Boer kill the Farmer’ – still popular – See You Tube.
    5. He is a communist.
    6. Chosen to be the ‘face’ of the ANC as he could cause little embarrassment whilst still in jail. Highly successful martyr as it needs little talent.
    7. He has at least one illegitimate child – very common in SA.
    8. He was an ineffectual token president.
    9. Would have stayed in jail a lot longer had communism not collapsed. (Ask the USA and UK about that)
    10. He could have been released when offered freedom by PW Botha in return for renouncing violence. He chose to remain a terrorist and will die as such.

    • letlaks

      How can you renounce violence if you are a victim of even surviving. No one man will ever be celebrated trust me. you wish!

  • clive sargeant

    Check out the Nelson Mandela Quiz on Google Play. It’s free! The quiz covers the life and times of Nelson Mandela.

  • grassroot

    Of the 21000 black deaths caused by political violence
    throughout the years of apartheid 518
    were caused by security forces. That means 97 percent of all political
    killing of black people were done BY blacks and 3 percent were done by security
    forces. Put in another context, security forces were hunting those who were
    politically orientated in London
    and trained in terrorism and subversion in Soviet union
    to be let loose like rabid hyenas on the hapless black populations in southern Africa.
    “The media” were tasked to obfuscate the grass roots realities of southern Africa
    and twist it into this farcical, ridiculous lopsided cartoon where, eventually, a Nobel
    peace prize is given to a leader of an organisation that had thousands of
    children burnt to death as a political strategy to intimidate the local black
    populations. “The media”, of course, more or less from the same vile lair as
    that which so loudly agitated for the criminal invasion of Iraq
    in 2003. Remember?…. “No weapons of mass destruction here”

  • Big Leo

    The ANC terrorists under his leadership were able to kill tens of thousands of people– nearly all Black. The only whites his murderous ANC attacked were civilians. That defines not only terrorist, but coward. Furthermore, independence has wrecked South Africa, more than tripled the murder rate, and done very little to solve the economic problems of Black Africans. Around four thousand Boers have been murdered with almost complete silence from the government. His legacy has been failure and murder.

    • letlaks

      It is called civil revenge!

  • Maximus

    Everyone here thinks of apartheid as only being inforced from the mid-1940s. What many of you forget is that it was practiced for more than 300 years when old Jan van Riebeek set foot on the beach in what is now Cape Town.

  • KL

    Want to know how people can justify the apartheid goverment?
    How any-one can justify asking some-one for id documents when walking late at night after a curfew they didnt set??
    How any-one can justify finding a person of non white colour out after cufew with papers and beating them to a shallow grave?
    How any-one can justify there forfathers coming to a land that wasnt theirs and making the people they found their there slaves?
    How any-one can justify anything the apartheid goverment did?
    Because by justifying it , you must accept all being done against it!
    To justify something means you know its wrong but you need to justify it it to make it right!!

  • Bhadmus Ramon

    Former south Africa leader Nelson Mendela is an Africa icon and a true leader with all Africa leaders need to emulated ,,,,,,,,,,Nigeria leader need to learn from mandela leadership pattern

  • Kurt

    What fun!!! People making comments and critiquing a man who spent 27 years of his life in prison, from the harsh confines of a plush office chair. In any war or battle, the opposition is always viewed as a terrorist and the evil ones. That is a fact. Mandela was head of Umkhonto We Sizwe, the military arm of the ANC and there were bombings and death. These are tragic, as were the deaths of freedom fighters like Hani and Beko. The freedom we South Africans have today was paid for by the blood of other people. A freedom that is now urinated upon by the most corrupt of Governments and Presidents.
    That being said, what ever you views might be on Mandela, and his actions during the darkest of times. He is a great man, the model of forgiveness, a pillar of dignity and an example to all. God Bless Nelson Mandela.
    Lukka Ouens

    • Wim Kotze

      …and obviously you also believe Superman cartoons to be real.

      • Justin

        And obviously you have nothing intelligent to add, as when someone confronts you and presents and argument to your basic racism, all you do is scurry away.

  • Jono

    Joe needs to be imprisoned merely for contaminating cyber space with his liberal dose of verbal diarrhoea. How dare he speak of Madiba in that way !
    Us South Africans disagree about most things but not when it comes to Mandela. Joe and everyone of his ilk are genetic mishaps and I would not have dignified his drivel with a response had it not been for Mandela.

  • Clintonv

    Any person who fights the laws of any country and orders killings (bombings, shootings, including torture….) is called as a terrorist. This man was a terrorist and now called an icon. The self enrichment of the ruling party (ANC – African National Congress) has been raping the tax money with no interference from foreign countries, Think of calling Osama Bin Laden an icon too, fighting to change western countries into Muslim states

    • letlaks

      What about the whites abusing blacks in their country and continent of origin. What about the slaves you have made out of Africans. What do you call that one. Lord have mercy on you!

      • Clintonv

        Same, you strive on self pity, may GOD have mercy on you. Riding a gravy train expecting sympathy, shows your lack of education and self obsessed morals.
        What amazes me how racial acts are only possible when whits do it to blacks but when blacks do it to whites, its called liberation…PATHETIC!!!!

        • letlaks

          Clinton, who started the abuse on humanity, who started the slavery on humanity. When blacks liberate themselves from the cruelty of the whites, its called barbaric. you started the barbarism so deal with. Hell has no furry for “people “like you

    • Justin McBride

      Well, that was drivel. So according to you, you should never fight an oppressive gov. Also, any gov, by virtue of being in power can do whatever it likes, as anyone fighting against them will automatically be a terrorist. Might makes right I guess.

      So all those people that fought against oppression are all terrorist, and only the oppressors are the truly moral people, because they made the laws of the count, irrespective of whether those laws were moral or not.

      that is an foolish argument

  • Dave Munton-Hill

    I would have liked to see Wilbur Smith as the premier of South Africa, Toney Ben as the British PM and Hunter S thomson as the US prersident.

  • JD

    And now we have reverse racism in South Africa under the disguise of Black Economic empowerment, Do you all know that you are denied a Job because you are white, the Job will be given to a Black person who has not got an education or work experience.

    • letlaks

      What about Affirmative Action in the International labour Law. Its a world wide recognised redress of apartheid. You should not have let black suffer from the Start. Get it!

      • zumalicious

        hahaha funny. I’d die before I take a handout like BEE. But it’s the african (sic.) way is it not. Enjoy. It is not sustainable, divert your eyes from the big cities in this country (built by the way from white business) for a moment and see how everything is falling apart outside these centers, municipalities cant deliver BASIC services in many provinces. It’s no longer a black white thing, I am a white South African and we all will suffer the same. The day you have to look at your child and you can’t explain why there’s nothing to eat remember the time wasted pointing fingers at everyone else. That day will come if history and the current trend is anything to go by!

  • Stumpy

    history shows many things, mostly mistakes. Repeated.
    Freedom fighters, rebels, revolution, terrorism, invaders, oppressors it all amounts to the same thing, but from different angles.
    I was brought up being told Mandela was a terrorist; but I can now see that he may have been from one point of view, but he was also the victim of oppression in others.
    Mandela’s greatest achievement (my opinion of course) was drawing a line under it all and moving forward. If only the rest of the world would take note and move on too. Maybe we would have a better world.

  • Restiano

    Mandela was a good man no matter what people can say we don’t care. his our black God, as Jesus does in Golgotha in his time.

  • kandles

    Terrorism has many definitions depending on whose side. the Boers disenfranchised the native owners and treated them like dirt. Mandela started with peaceful resistance but was forced to war. is the mass kill a break.

  • Deon

    Do we know how many blacks were killed under apartheid?

    We do, and the source is none other than the Human Right Commission submitted as evidence to the TRC in 1997.

    The statistics they proffered relate to the number of blacks killed between the years 1948 up to the election in 1994. The total number of blacks killed were 21 000. But wait, it gets more interesting.It’s not the full story.

    The HRC report also makes a distinction between two periods. One from 1948 till 1989 and the next from 1990 to the election in 1994. The number killed for the period from 1948 until 1989 is 7000.

    That means the number killed from 1990 to 1994 which is AFTER the
    unbanning of the ANC and for all intents and purposes apartheid had ended is a whopping 14 000, involving mostly black on black violence between the ANC and the IFP and various other factions! Not whitey’s fault.

    Of the 14 000 killed during those 4 years, 92% of deaths were caused by blacks killing blacks.
    Only 5.6% were attributed to the Security Forces at the time and usually in
    retaliation to attacks initiated by the ANC/UDF that had been unbanned. Remember Ciskei? The difference in % is due to unknown causes.

    What this means is that during the apartheid reign of 41years, 7 000 blacks died compared to double the amount of dead in just 4 years!
    Let me break it down yet further, 170 blacks were killed as a result of
    apartheid ANNUALLY. That’s 170 people per year! That’s the HRC figures people!
    Sounds like an insignificant number now doesn’t it?

    More blacks then were killed under De Klerk’s ‘new’ anti-apartheid government of 4 years than in 41 years of government under full blown apartheid! How good was the propaganda of the anti-apartheid movement eh?!

    Let me summarize, this needs to sink in:
    1948 – 1989: 7 000
    1990 – 1994: 14 000 (of which 92% as a result of ‘black-on-black’ violence’)

    Really, is this the death toll of the “heinous” apartheid system the world grew to hate? Just 7000 deaths? And was it the worst thing to happen in the 20th century? Um, let’s look at the Left’s favourite socialist/ communist/ marxist/ dictators leaders to name but a few:
    • Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) : 23 million (the purges plus Ukraine’s famine)
    • Mao Ze-Dong
    (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) : 78 million
    • Pol Pot (Cambodia,1975-79): 1,7 million
    • Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78): 1,5 million

    Apartheid: 7 000.
    The list of far worse political systems is quite extensive and apartheid wouldn’t even feature.

    You see I did my final Political Dr Thesis on this subject and wanted you all to see the Bigger Picture when we think we know what we are talking about.

    Deon.

    • letlaks

      Because weapons were give to blacks to commit black on black violence. And besides who was there to do the statistics during apartheid. You cannot commit a murder as a white folk and record the number thereon. get it. Many blacks were slaughtered, killed, family destroyed under apartheid. Where was the media to record all this.

    • Justin

      Wait, where is the holocaust???
      Does this make Apartheid all right, even if accurate?

  • Jo Barton

    The Dutchmen will always play down what this great man accomplished, is that not true wim kotze?

    • Wim Kotze

      The slimey redneck will always lie and brownnose, not so Jo Barton?

      • wollop

        Old wounds like wim should be cauterized, lest infection spreads.

        • Wim Kotze

          Did you get your piece of wisdom from your copy of Mandela’s pamphlet on how to be a good communist? Stalin tried that recipe, but truth will out, eventually.

  • david chege

    LONG LIVE MANDELA

  • Esther

    the was a great Man.the live is life for is people of South-African the lord will bless him.Long live Nelson Mandela-from Nigerian

  • Alvin D. Mambo

    Nelson Mandela is African HERO he is the want that the internation community coulden over come and he out of the satan popularity. Any good thing from Africa LIke Jesue and Nelsom Mandela

  • Doug

    Another thing to know is that he was a terrorist. He was arrested for initiating the armed struggle. He encouraged the planting of bombs (yes, those things that kill INDISCRIMINATELY) Just like Al Qaeda and the lot, he was a terrorist. If he had a donkey, he would have put a bomb in its bottom.

    Quote Wikipedia “Inspired by Fidel Castro’s 26th of July Movement in the Cuban Revolution, in 1961 Mandela co-founded Umkhonto we Sizwe (“Spear of the Nation”, abbreviated MK) with Sisulu and the communist Joe Slovo. Becoming chairman of the militant group, he gained ideas from illegal literature on guerilla warfare by Mao and Che Guevara. Officially separate from the ANC, in later years MK became the group’s armed wing.[100] Most early MK members were white communists; after hiding in communist Wolfie Kodesh’s flat in Berea, Mandela moved to the communist-owned Liliesleaf Farm in Rivonia, there joined by Raymond Mhlaba, Slovo and Bernstein, who put together the MK constitution.[101] Although Mandela himself denied ever being a Communist Party member, historical research has suggested that he might have been for a short period, starting from the late 1950s or early 1960s.[102] Operating through a cell structure, the MK agreed to acts of sabotage to exert maximum pressure on the government, bombing military installations, power plants, telephone lines and transport links at night, when civilians were not present. Mandela noted that should these tactics fail, MK would resort to “guerilla warfare and terrorism.”[103] Soon after ANC leader Luthuli was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, the MK publicly announced its existence with 57 bombings on Dingane’s Day (16 December) 1961, followed by further attacks on New Year’s Eve.[104]”

    The ANC agr

    • letlaks

      I think you need to educate your self about what has inspired the starting of MK. We still need MK even now. get it

  • Nomacala Mpunzi

    His Tribal name is Madiba not Rolihlahla, Rolihlahla is his Xhosa /African name.

  • jasperpepper

    I have no intention to criticise Mandela here but the only reason he is so widely praised is because he is one of the very few African leaders not to be a first class embezzler of state funds and a third class administrator.

  • ALUESHIMA

    JESUS IS THE WAY,THE TRUTH,AND THE LIFE.CALL HIM LORD NOW OR ELSE DOOMSDAY AWAITS YOU.HE IS THE PRINCE AND THE CAPTAIN OF THE WINNING SIDE

  • http://www.creative.co.ke/ Peter Miles

    Mandela is an Icon. Enough said!!

  • jo

    i would still like to know what happend to stompie?

    • Doug

      Wrong Mandela

  • Arusi Naemeogo Umuoji

    how is about watt we don’t know

  • bonile ngqiyaza

    Rolihlahla is actually his given name, the name his parents gave him. But at the time in South Africa, you were given a “Christian name” at school because the beautiful, indigenous names, which more likely than not, carry some meaning, were considered heathen. Indigenous African names can be aspirational, what you wish the child to grow up to be, or descriptive, certain things and behaviours you notice in the child, or they can be to honour someone in the bloodline, clan, etc. Rholihlahla means to drag a branch behind you… colloquially, it translates to “troublemaker”.

  • William Henry Bowen

    THE biggest mistake the South African government made was not hanging this traitor & murderer in the 1960s.

    • letlaks

      you deserve hanging as well.

  • Petit

    Who is what ? every age group has a hero .,Nelson ,Washington ect, they were all great people in our history and we can’t deny them cause they have sacrificed allot for us to be who we are today . Black ,White,color . humans u’ll are . stop judging cause ever man most do wrong or right to find a better place for tomorrow . U guys should start looking for a way to safe the human raise from global terrorism . young children die every day for reason created by they parents .lets make a different like any of them and stop judging them .

  • Future Candidate

    Lets blow up these toll gates, kill some corrupted ANC individuals and give the money back to the people who have been excreting for the past 5 years in the dirt. Mandela your my hero who have shown me how too be a terrorist for all non-goverment people. Then i will definitely become president and get some awards from the Retarded blue and red people.

    • Justin McBride

      have you been denied a vote, basic human rights?

      Have you no recource to parliment.

      have you no representation.

      How can you equate the two scenarios ?????

  • Ruben1

    How did freemansonry assist and support Mr Mandela during his most difficult period as a prisoner and thereafter when in power?

  • khizer khan

    isn’t it strange,a same person has two labels,if he is fighting the occoupiers, he IS labeled as TERRORIST,and the nation he is fighting for is labeld as FREEDOM FIGHTER.

  • Ek Belowe Bra

    Oh and another: Nelson Mandela was sentenced to 27 years in prison for his acts of terrorism. One which include the bombing of a white church.

    • Justin

      what church was that, and why did they not include it in the list of charges in the rivonia trial.

      Oh wait, you’re thumbsucking

  • Emeka Onwukwe

    WE ARE EXPECTING THE MESAIAH AND SOON AND VERY SOON HE WILL COME AND THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD WILL BE MADE KNOWN TO EVERYBODY, THE OPPRESSORS AND THE OPPRESSED

  • knight_of_the_realm

    Mandela is not the hero everyone imagines him to be – he is an opportunist that milked the system to feather his own nest. Scarified 27 years of his life? Nonsense, he was a terrorist that got caught and jailed – period.

  • JO ZEE

    How conveniently the world forgets the context of a Global Cold War on Communism and Terrorism, post WW2.

    In a dark, distant and disturbed future, today’s cover of The Rolling Stone could become an iconic collectible. Shattered bits of history can not be pieced together to create a coherent and true reflection. I was here in ’76. Where were you? If Nelson Mandela had done the same in the U.S. or U.K., the results would have been predictably similar.

    However the “Great Reconciliation ” is a fallacious myth, as many youthful South African citizens will inform. The Plutocracy remains unreconciled to the Poor, and equally heinous & unconstitutional biases continue to divide, now perpetrated by “heroic” comrades.

    A world swept away by it’s own emotional responses will ultimately pay the price for ignoring the obvious. The global economy is telling you not to dabble with destructive forces, no matter how noble your cause.

    If you were all so concerned, then why no rescue attempt? Robben Island was an undefended, low security facility, well within reach of the brave SAS, or Green Berets. Somehow y’all missed the invite.

    Stubborn indolence on both sides of the apartheid divide led to a travesty which destroyed the lives of many brave citizens on all sides. Nelson Mandela was relatively safe throughout.

    If you have something to celebrate, please go ahead, but rest assured, in South Africa, struggle is endemic to every aspect of existence.

    This nation did not exist until 1910. Slavery was abolished 76 years before that. No tribe of Bantu can claim this territory, which belongs to the original Khoi. All others are guilty of displacing the true indigenous inhabitants and are also migrants. However 1,213,090 sq. km. of land mass with a very limited rainfall will start to explain some of the economic and infrastructure challenges. Not to mention more than 2500 km. of open coastline to defend.

    The ANC have had no hand in planning or building this requirement prior to 1994, except in terms of supplying the labor force. . Now they are letting this vast investment , made by the sweat of their own brow, slide into insignificance. MK has never had a Cvil Engineering Corp. They ignore the fact that they have risen from an Iron Age culture to a High Tech civilization in less than 400 years. Yes, grab your iPad and tweet this!

    Tarring all white South Africans with a “Boere” brush is irresponsible and ignorant. Just as America is rich in diversity, so is this new nation. English, Scots, Irish and Welsh: French, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Lebanese, Jewish, Arab, Indian, Malay, Polish, Russian, German, Belgian, Australian, American and many more nationalities are all represented in the non-black population. As well as many new minorities from far & wide. My own ancestors were French and Irish Protestants, and subject to murderous oppression by the Papacy and British Imperialism.

    So if you think we are all Dutchmen, think again.

    Death lies in the details.

    Obviously, selecting icons for worship is easier than recognizing the truth.

    Now, name the leader of the Khoisan. | http://goo.gl/bWVdS |

  • Abby

    Why are people so ignorant? It’s a known fact that Nelson Madela was a terrorist, don’t make him out to be a saint. He didn’t give up 30 years of his life to serve on Robbin Island, he had no choice, he is lucky he wasn’t executed as this was the norm for terrorists. He and his army of supporters killed and maimed many. I agree with Big Leo and wonder why Mike needed to bring the Americans into this? I’m not even going there, it’s about Nelson not the USA!! Kejoy….well said. Herb…nobody ceases to be a terrorist, once labelled, that’s what they are. Wim Kotze, Dipak is so not worth the breath to reply…good on you.

    • Justin McBride

      it is a known fact that he supported the armed struggle, does not make him a terrorist.

      it is known fact that what he was fighting against was an institution of terror.

  • x12

    he is just a man-made idol..

    • ToothyGrinn

      All idols are man made.

  • Samuel Frank Campbell

    A whole hatred thank you for this opportunity to review and make comparisons. As well as the chance to wittiness the different levels of communications, the many directions of the educating that is involved in this type of a massive forum. Not to mention the collage of the many diverse points of focus. The debate lends to an effect on my reasoning. I’ve found the comments most informative. Resulting in a brand new, alternative view of; War and a glimpse of some of the true price for the freedoms we of today seem to have been gifted with (A perfect present if you will, from our ancestors to us). Handed down through our history. Also I am grateful for the sneak-peak into some of the hidden hurdles and obstacles that we all must navigate in-order to instill the respect for our own life and the lives of others as well as our futures as one; a human race.
    ~ Samuel

  • Ilse

    boring bullcrap to be honest. I think we are all heroes to be honest and i dont weven think Nelson Mandela would want people to carry on as if he is some sort of God. Cause thats just wrong and he wouldnt want the ANC to rape our country the way it does and then hide behind the “o thats racist card” Everyone needs to grow up and get some lives.

  • Victor G. Flomo, Liberia

    The problems of the world are now institutionalized.

    and it’s affecting every part of the world most especially Africa,

    I am calling on people of the world to use this day to stimulate in themselves and others the spirit of activism, taking their destiny in their own hands.

    Africa is now considered home of extraction of resources for the west, leaving back nothing but dust and pain in Africa.
    Let African Leaders began to take this issue into serious consideration as we celebrate this world Nelson Mandela Day. Europe, America and the rest, please note that Africa Is Not your Farm.
    you take our resources and enriched yourselves leaving Back dust and untold suffering for our people

    • Brokenit

      Why do Africans idolize dictators and vote for them over and over again ? Do only dictators run for election in Africa?

  • Hari Fakhuri

    Why keep it secret that he was a multi-millionaire – that’s what people respect now isn’t it, money! It’s what they respond to most outside the artificial make-believe, do what I say not what I do, world of words. Let’s just disregard the mundane and the real. Where did he get his fortune you ask – where else but from the people of the land – yes, those people, the great mass of vote fodder and they are still poor, that hasn’t changed. And thank heavens the people of Zimbabwe where able to ‘throw off of the white yoke’. Otherwise who knows where they’d be by now. Still moderately poor and still seriously oppressed I expect.

  • Johann

    He remains an IDIOT

  • Gary

    http://youtu.be/NKiePbTcAfY

    Mandela: Speaking to reporters after singing to kill whites

  • Kelsonus
    • Justin McBride

      So???

      was it hidden that the SACP was part of the alliance???

      • Boerewitman1
        • Justin

          Errr, I brushed my teeth and washed my face this morning… Why would you think I have a dirty mouth???

          Oh wait, its Boerewitman1, the man who can’t handle someone that argues against him with reason, who has to resort to calling the other party a racist, with absolutely no evidence to back up any claim for racism…

          So I guess its just another unwarranted slur. I certainly don’t recall using any profanity.

          Ah well, what is the video about, I lost interest after about 3 seconds, all the shouting and what not. I guess its about a “black” man telling other “black” men to stop blaming “white” folk.

          I agree, race should never be an issue. However, the fact that you see people in terms of race, makes you (the general you, but if the shoe fits….) a racist.

        • Boerewitman1

          do you smel it? the crab you ‘re talking.
          You’ve said enough, racist. Oh yes you didnt answer my question. How involved are you with the say” when Mandela die, we going to kill the whites like flies” Please answer me.

        • Justin

          BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          Watch out, the crab is getting away, we not going to have crabsticks for supper….

          I am totally against comments like that, I disagree with classification based on race. like I said to your earlier post, but I guess since it did not adher to your pre-conceptions, you immediately erased it from your mind.

          Now that I answered your question, let me ask you one.

          Can you give one example where I was racist, please feel free to copy and paste :)

          I see no reply coming from you on this question :)

        • Justin

          Btw, here is the reply I made to your question yesterday which is still there, so I guess that you are either, misinformed and too lazy to check the real facts or, alternatively, a liar.

          Either way, your credibility is shot to bits.

          Reply

          You replied to Boerewitman1

          its terrible. Racism in all forms are wrong. Which is why I view apartheid as being wrong.

          yesterday

          10 Things You Probably Didn’t Know About Nelson Mandela

  • Proud South African

    It`s funny how peple, from whichever race, claim they love South Africa, yet are very quick to go off at a tangent with agendas and pointing the fiinger at other races, opposition parties etc. Here is some truth. Apartheid was terrible, to the point where i can justify the means people took to bring it to an end. Terrorist against a racist state. I`m fine with that because people were marginalised and oppressed. We can list the “facts”, quote articles and write up elaborate arguments while hiding behind pseudonames. But we don`t use those very same, well educated minds of ours to look for solutions to better our country TODAY. There`s no use f pointing the finger at what previous leaders did, if we don`t take the reseponsibility (as citizens) to improve our country. Perhaps it`d be better to sit on our stoeps and be quiet if nothing positive, that will build our nation is said.

    • Partyforever

      The problem is the current state of the country was predicted 60 years ago, 53 / 53 countries in Africa was a failure, that’s why there was no change. Detriot City, once one of the greatest cities in the US – that now have 83% black residents filed for bankruptcy yesterday. Lets be honest, black people have a terrible record at running countries, businesses or economies.

    • Ming the Merciless

      Only vile sewer rats will approve of bombing groups of schoolchildren as Mandela did repeatedly to satisfy his sordid vices and hatred!

  • Melanie

    Rolihlahla is his birth name, not his nickname.

  • Roderick Moore

    This is the most interesting string
    I’ve read on any story in a long time. Such polarized viewpoints. I
    know nothing of SA politics. I renovated a couple medical clinics there
    10 yrs ago and loved the people I met (both black and white). It was disappointing to witness the racism
    that still exists there. Whites would
    only work with whites. Blacks would only
    listen to their black supervisors. I’m
    not going to attempt to estimate the social dysfunction of this country. But IT IS a beautiful country. One that I’m most grateful to have visited
    and worked in. Such a shame all of us
    pesky humans muck it up.

    • Kathleen KKRDB

      South Africa was really very beautiful during the time of the whites
      i had visited i during the so-called apartheid saw nothing unusual all very moderate and peaceful.
      The fact there was white or only blacks division did not occur or cause problems.
      The problems began when the blacks (through Mandela & followers )
      Began their unneeded revolt.

      • Justin McBride

        racist alert…

        • Mailie Marshalls

          Bomber alert….

        • Justin McBride

          :)

  • Raymond

    wow!!!! God is wonderful, am happy for you Daddy Nelson

  • OLA LUKAZ

    IN THE FINAL ANALYSIS, WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS THAT THE OWNERS OF THE LAND GOT IT BACK FROM THE VANDALS. WHETHER THE DESCENDANTS OF THE VANDALS AGREE THAT MANDELA IS AN ICON OR NOT IS BESIDE THE POINT. THE POINT IS THAT THE OWNERS OF THE HOUSE HAVE CHASED AWAY THE THIEVES AND ARE BACK IN CHARGE! WE WON THE CONTEST AND YOU LOST! STOP BELLYACHING. SORE LOSERS! ALLOW US CELEBRATE OUR HEROES. SOONEST RECOVERY WISHES TO THE GREAT SON OF AFRICA FROM YOUR PEOPLE IN NIGERIA.

    • Kathleen KKRDB

      Did you,or any one else know that the Blacks used Apartheid on the whites for nearly a 100 years.

      As for getting their land back:What land?

      An arid and just a backward African until the Dutch took over and built the country.Then the British joined the fray.

      incidentally the first ones to use concentration camps were the British

      Wonder if any of you knew that..
      Having said this much,S.Africa needs stopping the high grade crime.and its criminals..

      • Franklin

        We were good with the Arid Land, we never asked nobody to come help us build it. it was invaded, we were invaded.

        • Mailie Marshalls

          And who did you steal the land from ?? – get a history lesson. There are Deeds of Sale records dating back to the early 1800’s . No land was stolen, it was paid for.

    • Mailie Marshalls

      CAPS LOCK is on the left of your keyboard – 1diot.
      You were never in charge in the first place !!! Secondly you plundered, murdered the San Peoples for the land. The wheel turns my friend and you own incompetence and Tribal intellect will soon put you back were you belong.

    • CarolDru

      Get your history right. Research when the Bantu-speaking peoples, migrating down from Central Africa entered what is now called South Africa, coinciding with the arrival of the Dutch at the Cape Colony. The only indigenous people in this country were the Khoisan, which the ‘colonists’ from the north duly annihilated. The Bantu-speaking peoples gravitated towards the eastern areas of the country (their hide clothing was not adequate insulation for extreme temperatures); in fact, ‘Africans’ never set foot in the Northern, Western and Southern Cape, comprising 41.1% of the land mass of the country, and the British encountered them only in the Eastern Cape at the Kei River. A ‘vandal’ is one who wilfully or maliciously defaces or destroys public or private property, such as a black school pupil burning down his school – liberation before education! Choose your insult more aptly, if it is to have any relevance – and not boomerang!

      • Anonymous

        ARE YOU SAYING THE BANTU SPEAKING PEOPLE ARE NOT BLACK AFRICAN? WHAT YOUR EUROPEAN HISTORY WRITERS ERRONEOUSLY REFERRED TO AS “MIGRATION” -WHICH YOU HAVE UNFORTUNATELY DUBBED COLONIALISM OF THE KHOISAN BY THE BANTU SPEAKING PEOPLE- IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE VARIOUS AFRICA-WIDE INTERNAL MIGRATIONS CAUSED BY SEARCH FOR BETTER PASTURES, FOOD SOURCES, SECURITY FROM NATURAL CALAMITIES ETC.THESE MOVEMENTS NATURALLY LED TO THE RISE AND FALL OF MANY KINGDOMS. YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT ALL THESE WERE INTERNAL AND ENTIRELY BLACK AFRICAN. IT IS NOT CORRECT THAT THE ARRIVAL OF THESE PEOPLE COINCIDED WITH ARRIVAL OF THE DUTCH (A SUB SPECIE EUROPEAN VAGRANTS) WHO WITHOUT MUCH ADO,PROCEEDED TO RAPE, NAY DECIMATE THESE KINGDOMS.PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT AS AT THE TIME THE VANDALS APPEARED IN SOUTH AFRICA, THERE WAS NO LAND IN THAT PART OF THE CONTINENT THAT COULD BE PROPERLY DECLARED AS “BONA VACANTIA” AND THUS FREE FOR SETTLEMENT. ALL LANDS IN AFRICA BELONG TO A FAMILY, COMMUNITY OR A POWER; NO MATTER HOW FAR IT MAY BE FROM CENTRAL CONTROL.
        PERHAPS, YOU NEED RE-EDUCATION ON THE ORIGIN AND PROPER USE OR UNDERSTANDING OF THE TERM “VANDALS”. ETYMOLOGICALLY, THE WORD “VANDAL” IS FROM THE WORD GERMANIC WORD “VANDILII”. IT WAS USED TO REFER TO AN EAST GERMANIC TRIBE THAT INVADED AFRICA IN CIRCA 440 AND PROCEEDED TO DECIMATE EVERYTHING ALONG THEIR PATH (JUST LIKE YOUR DUTCH ANCESTORS). THE WORD IS NOW SYNONYMOUS FOR A COVETOUS, UNCULTURED, DESTRUCTIVE,GODLESS AND BALEFUL PEOPLE LACKING IN INTEGRITY OR CULTURAL ORIGINALITY WHO MALICIOUSLY PILLAGE OTHER PEOPLES RESOURCES. THE TERM WAS USED BY ME IN THE ABOVE CONTEXT IN MY EARLIER COMMENT. PERHAPS YOU NEED A BETTER DICTIONARY? DO NOT PATRONIZE ME BY ATTEMPTING TO TEACH ME MY HISTORY, I LIVED IT!!!

        • CarolDru

          Writing in CAPS does not enforce a weak argument. On the contrary, it makes reading ponderous, and especially so when the the argument is so muddle-headed. If I thought you had the wherewithal to learn, I might attempt to ‘re-educate’ you. I do not.

  • Jacques

    Nelson Mandela is proof that the whites didn’t treat the blacks as badly as the blacks say they did. He was a man that was responsible for the deaths of more black people than what Eugene could even dream of. He is lucky that this is not America, or the entire country would have been blown to crud to try to kill him like what they did to Osama.

    He should have asked all the families remaining of those blacks for forgiveness instead of trying to play as if he was some angel or hero.

  • dools

    OH Good grief seriousy! @ Mcbride – millions…… here we go again – please give proof of the millions don’t just regurgitate what you have read on line or in other peoples comments… honestly!!!!
    White South Africa – shoudd insist on a Nuremberg style trial – so that the whol truth can emerge once and for all! Or maybe people should just go and read more of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s transcripts.
    McBride – we not talking Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge regime that was responsible for the deaths ofapproximately 1.7 million people by execution, starvation and forced labour during the 70’s nor Chile nor Russia nor China – who were committing gross human rights abuses on a GRAND scale but the UN turned a blind eye to these and more, Including the mass kilings of Hutus in the 70’s and to Idi Amin’s (Uganda) murders
    You see the other human rights violators (at the same time), as it turned out, were members of voting blocs of substantial size and influence in the United Nations. Thus, while these members were in the position to protect each other, South Africa, by contrast, stood alone. In fact the UN did nothing more than to ask Cambodia to take urgent measures to restore full respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms and prevent violations from occurring in the future? 1.7 milion people and they are asked not to do it again!
    The fact that South Africa was the ONLY country which the United
    Nations severely punished for its human rights violations, particularly in
    light of the number of other examples of oppression and cruelty prevalent in
    the global community at the SAME TIME surely casts a shadow of hypocracy on the UN as body and also on the member countries that vote against us – whilst themselves being guilty of far worse human righs abuses!
    It boggles the mind!

    • Justin McBride

      Well, if you had actually taken the time to read my post, you would have seen that it did not apply to the violent ending of peoples lives.

      But to the effects of a systematic oppressive regime that denied adequate healthcare, shelter, nutrition, etc etc.

      One doctor to every 400 “whites” but one doctor to every 44 000 “blacks”

      http://africanactivist.msu.edu/image.php?objectid=32-131-352
      There is one doctor for every 400 whites – and one for every 44,000 Africans. Life expectancy for whites is 15 to 20 years longer than Africans. Infant mortality rates for infants in rural areas are frightening – in some areas is it estimated that between one third and one half of all African children die before reaching the age of five. Malnutrition and appalling social conditions contribute to the bad health amongst the African population. In contrast, whites live in luxury – most households have at least one servant, and many have their own swimming pool. African and Coloured people live in temporary shacks lacking light, water and drainage. In the African townships the government-built houses also lack these amenities. Huge dormitory towns like Soweto (population over one million) have hardly any street lighting, telephones, supermarkets, cinema or sporting facilities. Segregation has been enforced – over a quarter million Coloureds and Indians have been compulsorily moved without compensation.

      Kicked off their land, unable to practice the subsistance farming, communties robbed of their men to the mines, malnurishment as a result of being unable to attend to farms. ridicuoulously low minimum wages, that meant families not feed, again, leading to malnourishment and susceptabilty to numerous illnesses, poor working conditions in mines, lack of workers safety, unsanitory barracks, etc… All leading to a lower life expectacy, which means a faster death. All due to the policies of apartheid.

      as such, people died as a result of the injustices of Apartheid, and therefore, not exaggerating. which of course, if you read the post, you would have seen,

      examples of some of the conditions;

      Because it is impossible to live off the land, which is generally non arable, and because of heavy taxation, African men have been forced to seek work in the white areas. This need is backed by laws that require every adult male to register for work with a labour bureau. Those African men who have permanent residential status in the urban areas represent a small minority and must, in general, live without their families, since their wives are seldom given permission to join them.

      The list of inequities suffered by black South Africans is a lengthy one. Whites, for example, consume 60 per cent of the nation`s income, occupy 86.5 per cent of its land, are eligible for free and compulsory education, enjoy extremely good health and live, for the most part, in luxurious homes with the service of poorly paid domestic workers. Africans, on the other hand, do not have free or compulsory education. A limited number of schools cater to only a small percentage of the African population and follow a different and grossly inferior syllabus. The pupil-teacher ratio is roughly 50 to 1 for Africans and 20 to 1 for whites. The housing provided for Africans in the towns is inadequate, lacking running water or electricity. The overcrowded and sparse conditions add to the hardships of town life in general. Poverty causes extensive malnutrition and disease. The medical service provided in the towns is inadequate, while that provided for the rural population is extremely limited. The effect of this situation is reflected in the high infant mortality rate, which is estimated at five times that of the white population.

      he absence of men from the rural areas when they are “on contract,” working as poorly paid migrant labourers, has an extremely adverse effect on the women left behind in the reserves. One of the rationales for paying such extremely low wages to African migrant workers is the assumption that the wives and children of these so-called migrants remain in the reserves and secure their families’ subsistence from the land. The employers are able to get away with these low wages, which are consistently below the Poverty Datum Line—that is, not enough for basic subsistence—because the wives and children of the workers live in the reserves and are expected to provide their own subsistence.

      However, it is impossible for the four million women, children and old people who live on the reserves—which constitute only 13.5 per cent of the total area of South Africa—to subsist on them. Land hunger is chronic in these areas, with the result that agricultural production has stagnated or declined over the years. In addition, women`s work has been extended to include all of the work involved in cultivation, as well as such tasks as preparing mud for hut walls and thatch for roofs and raising cattle, a time-consuming task, since, in addition to milking the cows twice a day, the cattle need to be taken out to graze every morning, brought back at sunset and closed in byres at night.

      While it is not possible to survive solely off the land, neither are the wages paid the migrant workers sufficient to supplement the reserve incomes. In order to set aside a portion of their hard-earned wages to send home, migrants have to make a considerable personal sacrifice. Even with the best of intentions, these contributions cannot do much to alleviate the harsh conditions of those remaining behind. The supplements are generally erratic and of varying amounts; some simply never arrive. Large numbers of families are forced to subsist without them, and no rural community is exempt from the problems caused by lack of financial support from male relatives working on contract.

      An assessment by a South African economist of the unemployment question paints a gloomy picture:

      “More than half of the black workers who have come onto the labour market since 1970 are still without work . . . No fewer than 57 per cent of the increase in the African labour force between 1970 and 1976 have remained unemployed. Add to this that the unemployed are mainly the young people and that the bulk of those that are unemployed are under the age of 30, and it is clear that a situation is being created that bodes ill for the country.” (A. Jacobs, Rand Daily Mail, 19 October 1978.)

      • Justin McBride

        http://faculty.morainepark.edu/stiemsj/Institutional%20Challenges/apartheid.htm

        Lists the infant mortality rate, which is linked to Apartheid, as been 40%. “whites at the time had under 1%”

        Clear enough link of apartheid killing masses due to its practices. Oppressive systems are linked to the infant mortality rates. hence,… MILLIONS

        • Mailie Marshalls

          Sounds like you are you related to the murderer Robert McBride. Always trying to justify the bombing and murder of innocent Whites. – If you are only 40 it indicates that your so called “Experience” of Apartheid is limited to hearsay and ANC propaganda. Your reality is distorted and you need an unbiased history lesson.

        • Justin McBride

          Err, being in my 40’s, not 40, means that I was part of the 1985 uprisings????

          Not trying to justify at all what Robert McBride did, I find him particularly offensive, and not for the reasons you think.

          I am justifying the fact that an armed struggle was a viable option and this included bombings.

          The “Please sir, don’t oppress us anymore” approach got zero results. The williness to take up the arm struggle and fight got us freedom. (of course, with other means of resistance and defiance)

          I guess the proof is in the pudding.

        • Mailie Marshalls

          Yes, the proof is in the pudding !! – SA is a disaster since you lot were handed a well functioning, prosperous Country on a plate. Remember the fact that the vast majority of Whites voted ‘YES’ in the 1992 Referendum, without this yes vote you would still be living in a MUD HUT. If the Indigenous/Tribal stupidly and non-productive entitlement attitude continues for much longer SA will be bankrupt.

          “South Africa is the only country in the world where affirmative action is in the favour of the majority who has complete political control. The fact that the political majority requires affirmative action to protect them against a 9% minority group is testament to a complete failure on their part to build their own wealth making structures, such that their only solution is to take it from others.”

          Finally, a word recently coined to describe South Africa’s current political situation.

          Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy)

          – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

          And for years were were lead to believe that it was the White man that was holding them back So another indigenous people wasting the legacy that they were left by their colonial masters. They are the last African country to go down the tubes.

        • Justin McBride

          BOL, I never lived in a mud hut!!!

          You forgot to mention that it was well function and prosperous for only certain portion of the nation, based on skin colour and that portion was 13% of the total population.

          You also forgot to mention that the so called prosperity was based on a cheap labour pool which was viciously exploited.

          So forgive me if I fail to accept that merely because you and yours were in a position of prosperity that it means that the country and all its population was in a position of a well functioning country.

          Robert Mugabe is also able to claim that his country is well functioning, if he ignores the plight of his country men and focuses only on his and his cronies, heck, the country must be doing real well.

        • Justin McBride

          the majority is to be protected against the minority because SA was one of the few countries where 95% of the wealth was in the hands of 13% of the population.

          As it is a well known fact that the ones who have will not share, there had to be put into place means to address those inequalities brought in by the racist system of government.

          BEE and AA was the result and it was NOT done properly.

          its should be in terms of disadvantage, but they rarely look at disadvantage, merely the race. And that is racist, and wrong.

        • Brokenit

          Today there are 45 million black people and 4 million white people. This ratio was once 2 million black people and 1 million white people. Africa was known as the continent were black people ‘died like flies’ from starvation, war, pestilence and diseases, before the arrival of the white medical missionaries. Apartheid had nothing to do with black mortality rates, which decreased dramatically once the white man got health care through to remote areas.

        • Justin

          Where did you get your info??? What regions are you talking about, are you looking at the whole of SA, or just cities???

          Also, your logic does not compute. You ignore the posted links as to the existing mortality rates and you state that because of the more rapid expansion in population size, it means that there was no infant mortality.

          what about the cultural bais towards big families meaning a more rapid growth of the demographic. just saying, your conclusion does not even add up with your currently unsubstantiated facts.

      • dools

        Hi Justin – I am truly sorry – I honestly did not see the rest of you article.
        However I would challenge you on many of your ‘facts’ – if only I had the time right now. Seriously would love to go head too head with you on many of these so called stats and ‘facts’.
        PS – just for interest sake – how old are you?

        • Justin McBride

          Well, I only posted so much because I figured you wanted proof.

          I am in my 40’s, old enough to have experienced having my father detained, without trial, for 8 months, for being the chairperson of our high schools parent teacher student association.

          old enough to actually speak from experience the reality of bantu education. the alteration of history as per the textbooks given, etc…

          Old enough to have people I know beaten up by the police, killed and imprisoned.

          Old enough to remember the Youth cutting off the picture of Nelson Mandela from their t-shirts when he made so many concessions to old power, it felt like he was selling out.

          Old enough to remember laughing when the ANC laid claim to historic events like Sharpville, etc…

          Despite that, I believe that it is all in the past, people should look forward to the future. AA, as practiced has no place in our society.

          Nor does the Model C school model.

          There were many things that were done better in the past, like free education provided by the government, but the fact that it was applied on racist lines and inequalities practiced renders those past successes void.

          You can not say things were better in the old days when you are looking at only one narrow section of the population.

          I was there when the goverment fenced off the dump area so that the “blacks” had no access to the items that were dumped, often wheat, bread etc, as it would have meant that lower prices. so instead the policy was to dump the excess to make sure that the poor had to pay to access food.

          I was there in the townships to see first hand the malnourshment and sickness that evolved as the lack of proper food and hygene. Remember, people had to walk for many miles to get access to water.

        • dools

          I am not saying that things were better across the board – during Apartheid. I am saying however that some things were better and many of my older black colleagues have todl me so – and they seriously have no reason to just say that. The ANC has let the majority population down – but I suppose trying to implement socialist policies to benefit so many when there is such a small tax paying base is just not sustainable. Much like the difficulties that the apartheid govt faced with trying to provide all services for large population off a very small tax base. I am suprised that you would have seen such mal-nourishment in the townships in the 80’s and 90’s – you say that you are 40ish. Did you live in the townships? And Sharpville … in the 60’s. I think that some of youre experiences have coloured your view points – as would be the case with anyone – I would however still challenge you on some of your ‘facts’ – but I would like to be able to back it up with evidence – not heresay and that is where my time is limited.
          I sincerely believe that it really is time for an independant Neuremberg style trial for Apartheid – so that the whole truth can finally come out – and NOT all the propoganda.

        • Justin McBride

          My father taught us that we need to know how people live. As small Children he would take us into the townships, into the houses. My uncle lived Alexandra township.

          My father would then take me to the affluent area, and show me how those people lived.

          3-4 families shoved into a small shack that had two rooms, and an old granny in a mansion.

          My father did the same for my kids, when they were six.

          The ANC has a lot to answer for, the position has NOT changed a lot for the masses. Most of the inequalities entrenched in apartheid has just gotten deeper, the ANC members (at least their elite) has become millionaires.

          except for superficial changes (we can now go to whatever beach we want to , woohoo) the plight of the masses remain largely unchanged from Apartheid days.

          Crime has increased, people are no longer scared of being sambokked for no reason, and know they will be given due process instead of being beaten and left for dead, and this unfortuantely now leads them to sense of entitlement, and lawlessness.

          I am not blind to the many faults of the ANC south Africa. This is not the country that my family and I fought for, the Azania that I espoused. But it is still better than Apartheid, because at least if the people take their blinkers off, they have the right to vote the people that are currently exploiting them (which is different from outright oppression) out of gov.

          But just to give you a personal ancedote. A friend of my Dad, Moses, a Christian, was walking in the road. Apparently educated overseas, with an accent.

          Apparently he looked wrong at a “white” guy who asked him,. “Kaffir, (afrikaans……..)”

          “I’m sorry, I don’t speak Afrikaans”

          “oh, you a clever kaffir, you think you better than me”

          And the guy proceeded to beat him. Moses, when there was a lull in the beating, reached out his hand, and told the guy that he forgives him. This apparently drove the guy nuts and he continued to beat the snot out of Moses, Moses continued to say that he forgave him.

          eventually, Moses was knocked unconscious.

          Apparently the police dropped him off in a township. He was taken care off and returned home.

          Months after that, he was confronted by a white guy who asked if he remembered him in halting english. Moses had no idea and told him so.

          the guy was amazed and told Moses that he was the guy that had beaten him up. Moses said that he was forgiven and hence forgot him. long and short, the guy could not get the instance out of his mind and spent hours on that street hoping to find Moses again to apologise. moses brought him to Christ and they remained friends, etc…

          Point being, things like that can not happen today, so we’re better off.

          I can tell you the story about my aunt being smacked by the white conductor for getting in at the front of the bus. Or the story of Hubert coming to school with his face swollen twice its size, Police had been informed that he was a member of our schools SRC (student representative council )and paid him a visit.

          Or Xolani in Conrade hospital, age 7 , shot through the spine by the police.

          and on and on…

          But that is all history, but it is a history that occured, so yes, there may have been some things better in apartheid, (example cleaner beaches, well, because the majority of the population were forbidden to go there), but the fact is, it was NOT better.

        • dools

          Hi Justin – thanks for your response. I did similar things as your Dad. I raised my kids on my own – and on more than one occaision lived in a garage with them (yes back then) but I always told them – that if God were looking down on the world as a whole – he woud still see them as been in the top 3-5% of the world population.
          I am sorry for your experiences. I think apartheid was an experiment (started by the British) – at Federal states (with the approval of the tribal chiefs) – but that went very wrong – and became Apart Hate. I am somewaht older than you and a Boer – my family has been here since 1968. I have to say that I only ever saw 3 or 4 instances of people been rude and disrespectful to black people – and it always pained me – because from young we were taught to respect all peoples and especialy those older. I have a memory of my mother taking me by the hand and saying ‘come now! we are not staying here a minute longer!’ – the reason being that we were at an Engish neighbours house – and they called their cook to come to the lounge and pass their cigarettes to them – that were right there in front of them on the coffee table. I also saw my Aunts I come from a (very large boer family) modelling care and service – as they would go to their back doors at 5 pm and provide medical treatment to the local folk – who would arrive in their droves, and arrange for a truck to take the pregnat mums and those that needed to see a doctor into town. I always saw them speak with respect – so my experiences are different – but I have no doubt that the security police were nasty. Nobody gave my family anything they worked day and night to achieve what they had/have – often lost it (due to British rule) and had to start again – yes I can tel you the stories of working literally day and night and the hardships they endured.
          It was some of your stats that I wanted to challenge – but as I said I woud not want to do that without providing you with ‘evidence’

      • Brokenit

        Justin, the black population was 2 million and whites were 1 million back in history. Today there are about 45 million blacks and about 4 million whites. How did this ratio increase occur if whites did not provide the greatest medical care to blacks. Baragwanath hospital for blacks during apartheid was the biggest hospital in the Southern Hemisphere at the time ? Do not believe the garbage you read about SA from liberal MSM reports who hate any independent sovereign country being successful, which is a threat to international world government.

        • Justin

          since you repeated your post verbatiem twice, allow me to return the favour.

          Where did you get your info??? What regions are you talking about, are you looking at the whole of SA, or just cities???

          Also, your logic does not compute. You ignore the posted links as to the existing mortality rates and you state that because of the more rapid expansion in population size, it means that there was no infant mortality.

          what about the cultural bais towards big families meaning a more rapid growth of the demographic. just saying, your conclusion does not even add up with your currently unsubstantiated facts.

  • Kathleen KKRDB

    Nelson Mandela was a common a gardener Terrorist.

    Nothing more.

    Have it on good authority from a white S.african who helped him among other,but now feel they were cheated.

    And why many abandoned that country (blacks & whites ) owing to the fact S.A is now the biggest criminal country topping what NY used to be before Mayor Guliany took over.

    The reasonably well placed financially blacks & whites live behind fences because of the rampant criminals who would attack their property and its life.

    That did not happened during the time the whites were in charge.

    It has since permeated propaganda.
    I know it first hand from the horses mouth ( from one young fellow )

    • Franklin

      Here’s what happened when whites were in charge. Africans we treated like trash in their homes by invaders who apparently got populated and decided to spread all over the world. Our Sons were killed, Mothers and Sister Raped yet no justice got served, go try doing that today, now and see how you gonna get whopped. Thanks to our Madiba and the rest of the freedom fighters

      • Mailie Marshalls

        Absolute B_llshit

      • Brokenit

        Not true Franklin. You obviously are not a South African. Apartheid means separateness. Blacks and Whites were separated. Whites decided to embrace change on their own, but now regret it. South African black and white people generally had quite congenial respect for one another, even during apartheid.

  • Kathleen KKRDB

    The last picture is sickening knowing Tutu the biggest Anti-Semite ever.

    Even looking at it makes me want to puke

    Anyway,seeing all the numbers my conclusion toward Mandela is rather exaggerated.

    If he went to a university & thrown out if proof that he was not worth it.

    The author forgot to mention Winnie & her terrorism toward the black dissidents she tried to quell by putting rubber tires around their necks.

    A lot of exaggerated hog was is being said on Mandela who received so much undeserved adulation while the one who indeed deserved it was Mahatma Ghandi.

    My thoughts worthy or not is how I feel.

    • Justin McBride

      Being anti-zionist is not the same as being anti-jew.

      Being anti-racism is not the same as being anti-white.

    • Justin

      You know Ghandi also was in South Africa and incited resistance against the South African government, right…

      And it did not work. In fact, the early ANC from 1912 to 1960 also tried to use the peaceful route, with no success… (38 years)

      But when they went to the armed struggle change came….

      http://www.southafrica.info/about/history/gandhi070609.htm#.Uf18k6z670c

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi

      also, to all those that said relations were equal, Ghandi reported these violations, and this was to an “Indian”, who was considered far superior to a “Black”

      In South Africa, Gandhi faced the discrimination directed at all coloured people. He was thrown off a train at Pietermaritzburg after refusing to move from the first-class. He protested and was allowed on first class the next day.[33] Travelling farther on by stagecoach, he was beaten by a driver for refusing to move to make room for a European passenger.[34]
      He suffered other hardships on the journey as well, including being
      barred from several hotels. In another incident, the magistrate of a Durban court ordered Gandhi to remove his turban, which he refused to do.[35]

      • Justin

        He urged Indians to defy the new law and to suffer the punishments for
        doing so. The community adopted this plan, and during the ensuing
        seven-year struggle, thousands of Indians were jailed, flogged, or shot
        for striking, refusing to register, for burning their registration cards
        or engaging in other forms of non-violent resistance

  • Happybrian123

    He was convicted of murdering two Policemen.

    • Justin

      he wasn’t even charged with murder…

  • Neels Mostert

    You forgot to mention a few more things – Mandela was single handedly responsible for driving a 1st World Country into the ground. Mandela was a known terrorist, and was on the known terrorists lists of both the US and Canada up until 2008, he had to get special permission to travel to these countries. Mandela was responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent people through his bombing campaign.

    • Franklin

      You whites need to get yo’ sh^t together, who is the worlds best terrorist if not America and the West?

    • Vije

      This is no different to other struggle people in other countries and even in current wars we see today. How would you go about fighting for your rights?

      • Neels Mostert

        How did Ghandi go about obtaining independance for India? Now my second question, would you then mind if the whites in SA start fighting for their own independance in the same manner as the ANC did?

      • Neels Mostert

        Well look at what Ghandi achieved in India, and that did not involve terrorism. Would you mind if we start doing the same thing to the ANC and it’s supporters that the ANC and it’s supporters did to us? It seems only fair.

        • Vije

          Ghandi is what we should all achieve. Protest with peace. But its not always possible. What did the ANC supporters do to you? Are you referring to the current issues of incompetence and corruption currently?

        • Neels Mostert

          I’m talking about all the bombing the ANC caused during the 80’s, all the innocent people that were killed during those days because the ANC did not follow the ways of Ghandi.

        • Vije

          All forms of war crimes must be punished, especially this. I certainly wouldn’t condone it but it was major struggle. I wish there was a peaceful way to fight Apartheid but this was the route taken. You could argue, if the hadn’t done this, they might not have won the struggle. Am sure if you were being oppressed and deprived of your basic rights and cannot get through peacefully, drastic action is the next step. Both sides (Apartheid Govt and the resistance) played very dirty, so can’t blame anyone.

        • Neels Mostert

          The ANC never won the struggle. Evidence has proved that it was external factors that brought apartheid to a fall, most notably our own white politicians who on the behest of the USA, sold us out, and together with that, sold tons of gold to the US to keep it’s failing economy afloat.

        • Justin

          They sold you out. How, the position of wealth remained the same, 95% of the wealth in 13% of populations hands.

          Or do you merely mean that they no longer enforced “white” superiority. No more Volkas Banks, banks that were created to deal with the Poor “White” problem, to ensure that there were no whites living like blacks.

          No more job reservations, ie, no person of “colour” could apply for a post in management, etc…

          I agree that the ANC did not win the struggle, the people of SA did. The ANC leadership certainly cashed in on the struggle, but the struggle’s first stage was won, to ensure that at least a semblance of equality was given… now to uplift those people that were downtrodden as a result of capitalist apartheid

        • Neels Mostert

          Oh my, another communist! What you seem to fail to realise, is that the black masses of Africa are uneducated and uncivilised, and the job of apartheid was to educate and bring civilization to them. For the first time in their history, they got education for free, they were sent to tertiary institutions for free, where they were taught how to read and write in their own languages, something that did not exist for all African languages before apartheid. They were given good, clean schools, modern hospitals, including the biggest hospital in the Southern Hemiphere! They were subsidised by whites. 10% of our nation paid 95% of the taxes, 10% of our nation subsidised 100% of our utilities, and 54% of our tax money was spent on the African people, yet they did not want to live in peace, no they wanted to cheat their way out of 30 000 years of emotional evolution. In less than 50 years, they wanted to be on par with a far more advanced and civilized civilization. They did not want to do the work back then, and they are certainly not doing the work now, almost 20 years after they have been ‘uplifted’. So tell me, in your country, do people become rich by working hard, or by striking, demonstrating, violence and xenophobia? This is the way Nelson Terrorist Mandela and his followers want to rule this country. Should I pack up my stuff and just give my job to a uneducated black person in order to ‘share the wealth’ that I don’t have? Do you have any idea how many black university graduates, cannot read or write, and do you have any idea why this is happening? It is happening because Nelson Mandela told them, that they are better than the white man’s education. That Africa can educate itself! Finally, just so that you know, it was never white who were responsible for blacks being “downtrodden”, we only came to Africa very recently. Since blacks deem themselves part of the human race, and since they claim that their’s is the progenetor race, logic would suggest that they should have been much more advanced, and should have conquered Europe and America and not the other way round. For thousands of years, they hung about Africa, killing each other, doing absolutely nothing, not even inventing the wheel. Were it not for the Europeans, blacks would have been on today’s menu for just about every single carnivorous animal out there, and at the bottom of the food chain, where they are anyway.

        • Justin

          Ghandi himself tried it in South Africa, the ANC followed his lead from 1912 to 1960, with zero results…

  • hairyback

    As a white South African let me weigh in for what it’s worth. Apartheid was terrible. Google squatter camp and you will see how millions of blacks lived, and there was little chance of improving themselves.They had no access to beaches, restaurants, movies etc. Education was poor (look up bantu education) as was hospitalization. The post office for example had two entrances- one for black, one for white. The blacks would only be served once all the whites had been served and then only if they felt like it. A trip there could take a few hours, and this is only scratching the surface. Mandela was violent, angry and wanted to bring this system down. The point isn’t what he did, (If foreigners did that to your family wouldn’t you go to war against them) but that after he came out of prison, and was handed control of the army, police and the country, he could have gone the Mugabe route and turned the tables on the whites, but he didn’t. He was ready to forgive and do what needed to be done to get the country united and building together.

    The biggest problem was that there just weren’t enough skilled/experienced black workers to take over the running of the country so you ended up with a pa becoming minister of health etc, and that very few of his compatriots shared his ideologies. So as soon as he stepped down, the vultures landed. The ANC had enough of a majority vote to legally rewrite the constitution. Things could have been a lot different. I don’t begrudge him any of his popularity.

  • Bennie Pietersen

    A most remarkable man indeed. It is just very unfortunate that he forgot the Khoisan plight for redress, justice and restoration in the process too…

  • Ming the Merciless

    Leave off that he was 30 years in prison for all the children he murdered in his restaurant bombing terror campaign…regular brainwashing lies from the MSM…

    • Vije

      How else would you fight the war? Don’t get me wrong, no innocent people should ever be targetted but that’s what happens. He wasn’t the only one. World War I, II, civil wars and other struggles always had innocent collateral damage. It’s always better to fight a war without bloodshed but what would you do if you are being oppressed and people you know and love dying around you? Would you just sit still?

  • Vije

    Look at the comments?! My word, an article, apparently about the 10 things we didn’t know about Mandela. I say that’s quite a wonderful summary of a man who did all kinds of things other than politics. But wait… alas, the comments make it seem like the “100 things wrong with South Africans and their bitter acceptance of a future they didn’t expect” or we can simply rename it to “whiny people who couldn’t immigrate”

    • Mailie Marshalls

      Your’e right, most South Africans, Black & White didn’t expect total incompetence and corruption to the point of bankruptcy.

      Every aspect of governance under the ANC is an epic failure.

  • knight_of_the_realm

    Mandela is the most overrated individual in the history of mankind. He is nothing more than a re-treaded terrorist, ego freak, and opportunist. It is money that makes his world go round.

  • AlynAdams

    #7 Is not quite accurate – Stevie Wonder’s music may have been banned on SABC stations (the state broadcaster – although I don’t remember that at the time) – but his music was still available via independent broadcasters and at music stores. I listened to PLENTY of it in the late 80s….

  • SUPERMAN

    HI NELSON I HOPE YOU RECOVER AND Y DID U GO TO PRISON

    • Mailie Marshalls

      He went to prison because he was considered a Terrorist – (Commander in Chief of MK ) and was therefore responsible for the mass murders of Whites in SA

      • Rixxi

        Not quite true: the mass murder of whites began only after Mandela was released from prison. Prior to that time savage behaviour by members of the black population was not tolerated.

  • Mailie Marshalls

    Justin McBride

    Yes, the proof is in the pudding !! – SA is a disaster since you lot were handed a well functioning, prosperous Country on a plate. Remember the fact that the vast majority of Whites voted ‘YES’ in the 1992 Referendum, without this yes vote you would still be living in a MUD HUT. If the Indigenous/Tribal stupidly and non-productive entitlement attitude continues for much longer SA will be bankrupt.

    “South Africa is the only country in the world where affirmative action is in the favour of the majority who has complete political control. The fact that the political majority requires affirmative action to protect them against a 9% minority group is testament to a complete failure on their part to build their own wealth making structures, such that their only solution is to take it from others.”

    Finally, a word recently coined to describe South Africa’s current political situation.

    Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy)

    – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

    And for years were were lead to believe that it was the White man that was holding them back So another indigenous people wasting the legacy that they were left by their colonial masters. They are the last African country to go down the tubes.

  • Dhasagan Pillay

    Rolihlahla is not a nickname you idiots. It is his Christian name. His tribal ‘nickname’ as it were is Madiba – his clan name.

  • kezia

    so you are all crazy. Remember you have to hae a + and a – to balance life! So what?

  • Willem Badenhorst

    Stevie Wonder was never banned in SA. Even Ebony and Ivory played on air when it was a hit. Us white kids loved it!!!

  • lemlem

    so what? what are those 10 things?

  • safrican

    Madiba means “saviour” and is a recent nickname

  • safrican

    Nelson is his english “white” given name, Rolihlahla, pronounced “Rolishlashla” is his given Xhosa language (tribal) name

  • truthfulpain

    Whats amazing is how apartheid-loving whites post their mindless cretinous drivel here where nobody who knows or experienced the terror they brought to the black populace is around to oppose them. Actually why am I amazed? Acts of cowardice are second nature to them.

    • Rixxi

      Do you know anything at all about South Africa – the old or new versions? The terror you speak of is now being inflicted on all races by out of control savages whose cowardice is legion; the government, apart from being the second-most overtly corrupt in Africa, is also totally incompetent. Keep your uninformed opinions to yourself, or find our first-hand what’s going on here.

  • stone

    if you do the math! His prison number is 466 and he was imprisoned in 1964… But they say he was in prison for 27years? I don’t think Mandela was imprisoned to start off with… The song “Asimbona uMandela” was composed by the prisoners in Robben Island.. Why did they compose such a song

    • sthe

      you are crazy

    • Justin

      released 11 Feb 1990
      Imprisoned 1962

      Rounded, its 27 years…

      What has his prison number got to do with the amount of years in prison?

  • moris

    Is Mandela was terrorism to white government in Africa? they where thought SA Africa is Europe or what ? go back please!! you terrorism from
    no where I don’t no

  • Spackle

    Whether you like Mandela or not or he is an icon not your father, brother,son, uncle nor yourself idiot. Have it blacks are in power, what about your people you bakka. Why don’t you go to the planet of idiots where you belong. Here in SA baby you will rub shoulders with us biggie whether you gaggle with urine or swallow it. You can go to the nearest tomato tree and hang yourself globbie!!!

  • Farrel

    Number 7 is not entirely true because as a child in 1984 and 1985 Stevie Wonder’s music was played continuously on Good Hope FM owned by SABC to this day. I remember Happy Birthday was played on radio and on TV in December 1985. He might not have been allowed in the country if that is what is meant but trust me his music was played a lot.

  • eduard

    He was a communist and an atheist and a terrorist. He planted bombs and killed innocent people. He did not spend 27 years on Robben Island, most of it was spent in a luxury house with a swimming pool and sauna on the premises of the Victor Verster prison in Cape Town. He wrote a book “How to be agood Communist”. He was only a president for two years and was coached and trained by Ian Barnard of the National Intelligence. He is no angel and no saint.

  • Real Truth

    He is a terrorist that killed people and planted bombs, Families had to collect their loved ones body parts with shovels. He is no hero, he is a murdered and yet people compare him with God, it is sick…..

  • James

    Not very much of em are important knowledge. ” honorary degrees from international universities worldwide, became the first honorary Canadian citizen in 2001 ” these bestowed honourary degrees are ridiculous and meaningless as they are not earned through educational merits.

  • MR SAY

    Correction. Rolihlahla is his actual name given by his parents. Nelson was given to him at School. it was the norm of the time to give blacks a name that the whites could pronounce. The called it a “Christian” name.

  • commentor

    HISTORY IS WRITTEN FROM THE WINNERS PERSPECTIVE SO WHAT SOME PEOPLE SEE AS HERO OTHERS CALL A TYRANT. WE SEE GEORGE WASHINGTON AND ABRAHAM LINCOLN AND OTHER FAMOUS AMERICAN PRESIDENTS AS HEROES WHILE THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF AMERICA PROPERLY WOULD CALL THEM INVADERS WHO CAME TO DESTROY THEIR WAY OF LIFE [WHICH THEY DID]. BUT MOST IF NOT ALL THE INDIANS ARE GONE SO WE CANT HEAR THERE SIDE OF THE STORY: THEY ARE THE LOSERS.

  • Michael Parsons

    I Can’t believe that some whites are so deluded that they actually defend the actions of this marxist swine, I have watched the country I once loved decline from a nuclear power into yet another failed African state.

    They Nats should have executed him, every Anc member and all white enablers as well!

  • jazzman

    one thing that i stil need to know why did they have to kill the late steve biko before everything his release in jail…

  • Charlie

    He was a terrorist that murdered innocent children with his bombs. Do your research people. Pretoria Church street bombings.

  • Charlie
    • sthe

      You are just pathetic!

  • David Stemmet

    This great man Mandela save as from the racist government National Party

  • Fambai

    if Mandela is not a strong supporter of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC -T in Zimbabwe) why is he waving with open palms

  • Owen Joseph Bourdilon

    Hi. i’m a religious writer and i have been into writing religious materials for just less than one year now, and all i solicit is a sponsorer, am sure we can spread the Gospel today pls contact me with this number= +2348160508916…..thanks

  • Andre Drinkwater

    And number 11 that you probably didn’t know is that this man killed soooooo many people in his ‘fight’ (terrorism) against apartheid. But he is a perfect example that prison can rehabilitate people because he came out of prison a loving and gentle leader.

  • TCP

    While FW de KIlerk may be widely credited as an instrumental force in ending apartheid, in my opinion as a white South Africa, this is completely incorrect. The fact that won the Nobel Peace Prize just totally discredits the substance of the prize itself!

  • Snowy Smith

    Nelson Mandela
    A JEW PUPPET
    of New World Order
    33 Degree Freemason Atheist.
    Communist Terrorist.

  • Zafa

    No matter how hard you try you can not demolish The man, his name is too big to be destroyed by any man, Madiba.

  • P W Botha

    Mandela is an old man – For this alone I respect him.
    However he is a filthy starlinist terrorist who killed more of his own people than the apartheid forces combined. Why do you lot ignore this genocide? Does it spoil your mandela god myth?
    His orders even from inside prison condemned thousands to a grizly death at the hands of his terrorist forces. The reason why south africa is in such a shambolic state today is a result of the ANC lead by mandela implimenting their non racial society which rendered whites in the country unemployable even with multiple university degrees. Research the brain drain suffered by this once beautiful first world country then you will see mandela is just a myth and south africa under his incompitent leadership turned into a turd world hellhole.

    • Thabo Mbeki

      You are right P W Botha. Mandela is a myth and south africa is just ten years behind zimbabwe because of the incompetent blacks who are corrupt to the core. I am ashamed to be one of them however I know I am not corrupt or a criminal like all the ANC politicians who are ruining south africa today.
      God please save my country from these unprincipled liers who tell the world they are democratic when they are anything but!

      • Liansky Bestenbier

        Oh please, your not black. Your a white guy who still can’t get over the fact that we are now allowed to live in the same neighbourhood as you, enjoy the same freedom and urinate in the same public restrooms. Get over yourselves, you low life murdering apartheid scumbags.

  • Guest

    1.) He was a terrorist
    2.) A crypto-communist

  • Sibu

    Its not true it means lead the the nation. the the mean you have

  • johnny

    Blacks cannot rule, they can only steal and murder. Where blacks walk, even the grass die. Look up in Africa and see for yourself. They should have build a wall around Africa thousands of years ago, and let them kill each other off, that is all they are good at. You always want to blame the whites, but you are nothing without the whites. Without the whites there would have been nothing.
    You oppress your own people, lie and deceive. Come over it, you cannot rule a country, not even your demigod mandela.

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  • tjee

    People can say anything they like, but this man fought for everything that we as young people enjoy today. for that i will always be grateful.

    • saiditall

      crime and corruption. More people, in particular young people, have died since your freedom – something to be really grateful

  • JoBo

    I’ve seen several photos of Mandela wearing the black cape with a huge Maltese cross on it. So Mandela is a Knight of Malta though, which is just one of the many Illuminati branches… Those photos are all over the Internet, so look for yourself.

  • Gabriel Abusah

    He is king of African

    who realy was this man oooh god help him to live long for us………

  • BARAK

    tony james is simply a byheart fool

  • TTTjemza

    “Rolihlahla” has two meanings. Literally, “rolihlahla” means shaking or even removing tree branches. Metaphorically, as an extension of a “tree-shaker”, it also means shaking the enemy, therefore ending up being in trouble. For instance, in the case of apartheid government, he “shook” apartheid regime by openly opposing the system and was prepared to die for freedom. That offended the government, and he ended up doing life in prison, but was released after 27 years. In Africa, we strongly believe a name of a person carries a meaning and a child is likely to become what the name suggests.

    • saiditall

      “he “shook” apartheid regime by openly opposing the system and was prepared to die for freedom.” Since when was a lawyer, politician or head of a terrorist gang ever willing to die for freedom. Mandela was not after freedom, but power – and he got it.

  • Michael Ekundayo

    That’s Africa image, we all can be proud of anytime. We love him, Nigeria love him and the world at large would always celebrate him

    For latest news Nigeria news, gossip, scandal, please visits Today’s Nigeria News at http://www.HmmNaija.com

  • Aibeetea

    Well I think we ought paint him more human by saying a little about his first wife. Bit more about disagreements with fellow freedom fighters.
    As for being a saint or not he said: “I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying”.
    He was just an ordinary man like any one of us who became great by deciding to stand for what he believed in, and at last WON!!!
    “It always seems impossible, until it’s done” – Nelson Mandela.

  • seun

    wow

  • Kenneth

    Son of Africa, let them say whatever they have on minds!

  • africanus

    how about the fact that he was the leader of a militia group?

  • africanus

    he was trained at Ethiopia, Algeria and visited Senegal

  • jashoney

    cool from a grate man

  • Sandra

    that was very good..

  • Name

    He is not an angel as everyone say he is, even Jeremy Clarkson says so.

  • Lauren

    Mandela’s tribal nickname is “Rolihlahla,” meaning “Troublemaker.” – NO that’s his real name!!!! Nelson is a nick name given to him by a teacher

  • Douglas

    what are the 10 things? they can never surpass the ones we already know dear.

  • Sammy

    As a South African, we are proud of Tata Madiba. Its heartening to see people interested in his trivia. It helps you understand the great man he is. If, however, this has interested you, I suggest you read A Long Walk To Freedom.

  • Jason SA

    …. U people know nothing of South Africa, or the way in which we look at this topic. Always on the outside looking in and speculating, never pausing to actually ask someone who knows… Honestly rediculous.

  • John(U cant pronounce my name)

    “Rolihlahla” is not Mandela’s “tribal nickname”; it’s his first name!! He was given the NICKNAME “Nelson” by a schoolteacher (not his sister) who couldn’t pronounce his name. It was not unusual in Apartheid South Africa for white officials (and empolyers) to arbitrarily “give” black people anglo-sounding names

  • John Nygard

    I pity all the white folks in South Africa who are claiming citizenship
    because a day is coming when all of them will be reduce to their normal
    potion as it was in the ancient Egyptian Eran. It will surely come to past someday, because I had this Vision in which I saw white folks from every park of the world in rage and chains, as refugees in Africa, seeking for food and shelter why because their nations have been destroyed with the nuclear weapon they produced by themselves, in those days their so called wisdom will become their woe

  • John Nygard

    I pity all the white folks in South Africa who are claiming citizenship
    because a day is coming when all of them will be reduce to their normal
    potion as it was in the ancient Egyptian Eran. It will surely come to past someday, because I had this Vision in which I saw white folks from every park of the world in rage and chains, as refugees in Africa, seeking for food and shelter why because their nations have been destroyed with the nuclear weapon they produced by themselves, in those days their so called wisdom will become their woe

  • John Nygard

    I pity all the white folks in South Africa who are claiming citizenship
    because a day is coming when all of them will be reduce to their normal
    potion as it was in the ancient Egyptian Eran. It will surely come to past someday, because I had this Vision in which I saw white folks from every park of the world in rage and chains, as refugees in Africa, seeking for food and shelter why because their nations have been destroyed with the nuclear weapon they produced by themselves, in those days their so called wisdom will become their woe ok

  • John Nygard

    I pity all the white folks in South Africa who are claiming citizenship
    because a day is coming when all of them will be reduce to their normal
    potion as it was in the ancient Egyptian Eran. It will surely come to past someday, because I had this Vision in which I saw white folks from every park of the world in rage and chains, as refugees in Africa, seeking for food and shelter why because their nations have been destroyed with the nuclear weapon they produced by themselves, in those days their so called wisdom will become their woe so

  • John Nygard

    I pity all the white folks in South Africa who are claiming citizenship
    because a day is coming when all of them will be reduce to their normal
    potion as it was in the ancient Egyptian Eran. It will surely come to past someday, because I had this Vision in which I saw white folks from every park of the world in rage and chains, as refugees in Africa, seeking for food and shelter why because their nations have been destroyed with the nuclear weapon they produced by themselves, in those days their so called wisdom will become their woe you see

  • John Nygard

    I pity all the white folks in South Africa who are claiming citizenship
    because a day is coming when all of them will be reduce to their normal
    potion as it was in the ancient Egyptian Eran. It will surely come to past someday, because I had this Vision in which I saw white folks from every park of the world in rage and chains, as refugees in Africa, seeking for food and shelter why because their nations have been destroyed with the nuclear weapon they produced by themselves, in those days their so called wisdom will become their woe

  • koos

    And he killed hundreds of people in bombing all over the country they forgot to mention this, he was asked by the old government to stop and he said no. Learn the real truth. I live in this country and lived through these bombing as a child

  • Victor Ne N E

    Guys all human born of a woman are full of evil including me.

  • lesole1

    Please note that more comments mentioned here about Nelson Mandela comes from confused and racist without knowledge.
    thank you.

  • theo martinez

    First one is already wrong. Rolihlahla is not his tribal nickname, it’s his real name.

  • Nigerian Boy

    i am not a south african but i say to you south africans love yourself this is 2013 your brains should work stop insulting yourself on here as others can see what you all are saying

  • Clerance

    By the time we finish fighting about being black or white the Chines would be ruling the world. They hav discovered all these toys to distruct us, prevents us from thinking !! Its a shame!! Mandela played his part…
    What have we done???

  • EyinjuOlodumare Olawole Samuel

    Good brief about this great man Madiba

  • mChad

    Tutu is a joke and Mandela was a Western Puppets, your article got facts in it, but the truth shall never be deter, we know who make the rules in this world.

  • edn eddie

    ooooooh yeah

  • Theo Marx

    Mandela is and will always be a terrorist. Is that perhaps the FACT that you all didn’t know about?

  • thabbs

    he was not selfish

  • Victor Omondi

    The world valued him as a hero and a hero he will stay to be in the papers and accounts of history not only to this generation but for many and many more to come.

  • tsar122

    Does anyone know how many innocent people died as a direct or indirect actions taken by Nelson Mandela? Orders given by him to plant bombs in bars, malls etc. As a leader he condoned this? Is that not why there were no war crime charges brought against the old government or ANC leaders?

  • joshua kibler

    Does anyone know how many innocent people died as a direct or indirect actions taken by Nelson Mandela? Orders given by him to plant bombs in bars, malls etc. As a leader he condoned this? Is that not why there were no war crime charges brought against the old government or ANC leaders?

  • mageza chauke

    Actually i want to understand more about terrorism or rebel, what the united nations say about all these? i have learnt that france were behind what happened in libya, THE REBELS WERE SUPPORTED BY THEM,meaning that to rebel against the government is allowed with claims “dictatorship regime” as their weapon, but the truth is-they want to control all the resources of this world.
    people are running away from the truth, you can fool some people some times but you can’t fool all the people all the time.

    • saracen_za

      Similar to the Libyan saga is what is happening in Egypt. The American financed Coup of a legitimately elected DEMOCRATIC government…with thousands killed and tortured and incacerated. The USA still pays the Egyptian army to do its dirty work.

  • Mlungu

    These comments renounce the disparities of the past in the narrow minded senselessness of oppression against one race. Mandela’s altruism even in the face of degradation by the country he later served was commendable by any standard. For all the oppression faced by black people in south africa the white people got off lightly. The ANC was faced with a mammoth task of running a country on the brink of a national debt crisis, and although having not yet achieved first world status, we live in a country of beauty, unity will be brought in generations to come. Please read the debt situation faced with the Manhattan banks in 1988 before commenting the usual ill informed racist comments that usually follow an objective statement.

  • Trollstein

    Mandella was one of those guys who was at the wrong place at the wrong time,
    then, became at the right place at the right time. I just do not understand
    what is so exceptional about him. OK, spent a lot of time in jail as a
    political prisoner. Sad indeed but that narrows it down to a few thousand
    people in similar circumstances. Of course, I supported black equality in South
    Africa. I just do not give him especially much credit for that achievement. It
    was a matter of time only. Go back and replay the campaign speeches of his
    black adversary for the first election after apartheid ended. He had some
    unflattering things to say. Not that all were true, but it puts reality in
    proper perspective, something we humans need once and a while.

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  • Winston

    Some more facts you probably did not know about Mandela:

    1) He is the author of ” How to be a good Communist”.

    2) He was visited in prison by intelligence officers from various countries, including the CIA.

    3) He had a telephone and fax machine in prison.

    4) When transferred to Victor Verster prison, he was given a warden’s quarter, with swimming pool.

    5) At Victor Verster he had a white cook.

    6) At the Rivonia Treason Trial enough evidence was presented to have him hanged.

    7) He never denounced violence as a valid struggle means.

    8)
    The plot uncovered which resulted in his arrest entailed overthrowing
    the country in such a state of chaos and anarchy that police would not
    be able to keep up with arrests.

    9) The plot he was involved did
    not entail installing a Democracy in South Africa, but a Communist State
    which would extend to other countries in the southern part of Africa.

    10)
    After his release from prison and after his saintly utterances he sang
    songs about killing whites/Boers along with Ronnie Kasrils (Central
    Committee of the South African Communist Party (SACP) from December 1986
    to 2007).

    • Liansky Bestenbier

      Where do you low life murdering apartheid scumbags get this? Are you still pissed of that you can’t beat us with a stick whenever you want to?

    • Muhoi_wa_Njaga

      Yawnnnnnn……….Apartheid is over. White people are just ordinary minority citizens in South Africa and your diatribe is 20 years old. Quite stale. It’s not lekker, boeren.

  • Pingback: The Seven Facts You Never Knew About Nelson Mandela | NEWS AT 247()

  • Starry

    Nothing about him being the leader of Nkonto we Sizwe – the terrorist arm of the ANC and how he ordered the attack on Shell House, killing multiple people?

    • Muhoi_wa_Njaga

      Yawn…..

  • MrTee007

    I knew all those things and i know even more

  • loyiso

    i wish you all could just stop trying to make us believe that mandela is a saint because he is not a saint and to most of us who are fully informed,he is in fact a sell-out and a terrorist.

  • loyiso

    its not rolihlahla ,his name is holihlahla

  • Lani

    Hi All, I’ve read through every comment on this subject… And I can’t fault anyone for any view or comment expressed as all are entitled to their own…

    But I think everyone has to sit back and have a moment of thought about what has happened since our country has moved into change of equal opportunity for all… some good, some not so good (nobody can deny that) but looking back at what has transpired and where we are at this stage…

    There’s no “White” or “Boere” or “Apartheid” government at the helm currently (and hasn’t been for over 18 years correct me if I’m wrong) thus a “role switch” (for lack of better words) has transpired to change the equality of opportunity, corrective measures, actions and steps has been taken, hasn’t it? Some really good measures to setup infrastructure improvements and schemes or aids to assist with all these changes have been implemented. A lot of CHANGE has transpired, but did we?

    The core of CHANGE depends on CHOICE.

    You choose to evolve yourself or you choose not to.

    YOU STILL CHOOSE.

    For example, if a person chooses to study hard, work hard, earn a decent salary or not to… it’s their choice… If they buy, rent or shack-up a home, they choose where they do that… they choose if it’s in a “sparkling suburb” or a “rural township”… but then they have to accept that their choices has consequences. “Sparkling Suburb” – has extreme levies, huge utility bills etc. of which they have to pay. “Rural Township” – has almost no sanitation, roads, utilities etc. which they have some or little to pay. But that’s what they
    chose, didn’t they? If they’re not willing to accept the consequences that
    came with their choices, then CHANGE it!! But only they can change it by
    choice, we can’t expect someone or an entity to change our choices, that’s completely up to ourselves. If we chose not to change within the last two decades, we can’t blame anyone… Not the government or the apartheid regime or ancestors or the oppression or infrastructure, it’s a choice that we
    made by ourselves.

    Fact of life is that:
    NOTHING COMES FOR FREE, WE HAVE TO APPLY OURSELVES TO MAKE IT HAPPEN (In other words, we have to do our part and work for it).

    The opportunity has been created to change our choices… if we don’t utilise and change it we only create animosity with the dissatisfaction of all our own choices.

    In my personal opinion it seems like quite a few has chosen to follow in the
    rut of old, the path that’s been walked by anger, aggression and disdain… Holding on to the anger of long past, even if we weren’t part of it – taking on and embracing anger of our elders that isn’t and shouldn’t be ours! Not being the change that we want to see, but choosing not to flourish when the green pasture is right beside that old path beckoning… why wouldn’t we want to enjoy the freedom that has been calling? Choice…

    Current situations and positions of the people of South Africa, no matter what ethnicity are products of their choices.

    Did we choose to change or not???

  • norainbownation

    …but what I do know is that he’s in a vegetative state at his home on a ventilator..pratically dead!

  • Moses Ryoba Ppftower

    are you guys want to learn swahili from Tanzania? in africa we named mandela ‘the father of africa’ BABA WA AFRICA’ i great you guys in the great name of MOSES RYOBA

  • hippoet

    what matters now is Freedom, I was born after the apartheid and I thank God for that and for bringing this Icon to rescue us. As for those who are still mourning about their Botha they should wake up and smell the freedom situation. Forward we go backward never,
    ACCEPT it !!!

  • vin-coco

    Hi Guys, late than never,Mandela was a great man in jail, after his release his people and leaders of the nation have raped, bribbed and delivered empty promises to the nation not a word has come from Mandela to correct the people who have the power to change this country. there is more racist now that ever and they are not white, black law society, black economic forum BEE ect why should any person change when all thats happened is the system is reverse

  • 4_Real

    Reading thru some of these comments its hard to think that this country will ever get over the whole racial thing —- ppl need to stop generalizn that blacks are like this and whites are like that ! — the mentality of some ppl are just shocking — passing judgement(and yes everybody is a critic) to someone should be based on who they are not what race they are … you get criminals in all races ..you get rapists in all races and you get good kind ppl in all races too !… skin colour should never be the bases of judgement …its just shallow and dumb witted !

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  • josue gracia

    human creatures you are very pathetic so called christian but keep judging the other person . death and birth taught us one thing we are all the same . who can tell me if they choose their family or they know their death day even with terminal illness you don’t when. what i need to control you is just to in store FEAR in you . that is what banks, life insurance and mystical religions do. I am a proud Rosicrucian.

  • German

    Why they let people comment on this is beyond me. Stupid arguments. South Africa is full or racists. They are born and bread and there.

  • JJ

    seis maan, sies!!!!!!!!!!!!! young pple being coerced into face of wt appears to be freedom and thy graciously accept it wif smiles. wakeup, we dnt hv leaders we hv bunch of sellouts n puppets dressed in suits in that parliament.

  • OLA LUKAZ

    @CAROLDRU ARE YOU SAYING THE BANTU
    SPEAKING PEOPLE ARE NOT BLACK AFRICANS? WHAT YOUR EUROPEAN HISTORY
    WRITERS ERRONEOUSLY REFERRED TO AS”MIGRATION” (WHICH YOU HAVE
    UNFORTUNATELY DUBBED COLONIALISM OF THE KHOISAN BY THE BANTU SPEAKING PEOPLE)
    IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE VARIOUS AFRICA-WIDE INTERNAL MIGRATIONS CAUSED BY
    SEARCH FOR BETTER PASTURES, FOOD SOURCES, SECURITY FROM NATURAL CALAMITIES ETC.FROM
    EAST TO WEST, NORTH TO WEST AND SOUTH ETC. SOME OF THESE MIGRATIONS WERE TEMPORARY, SOME SEASONAL
    WHILE MANY WERE PERMANENT IN NATURE. THESE MOVEMENTS NATURALLY LED TO THE RISE
    AND FALL OF MANY AFRICAN KINGDOMS. YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT ALL THESE MIGRATIONS WERE
    INTERNAL AND ENTIRELY BLACK AFRICAN. IT IS NOT CORRECT THAT THE ARRIVAL OF THESE BANTU SPEAKING PEOPLE
    COINCIDED WITH THE ARRIVAL OF THE DUTCH (A SUB SPECIE OF EUROPEAN VAGRANTS). THE BANTUS- JUST LIKE THE FULANI OF WEST AFRICA- HAVE BEEN MAKING THESE MIGRATIONS FOR CENTURIES BEFORE MAKING PERMANENT SETTLEMENT OF THEIR FINAL ENCAMPMENTS.
    YOUR RAPACIOUS DUTCH ANCESTORS (AND LATER THE BRITISH) WITHOUT MUCH ADO, PROCEEDED TO RAPE, NAY DECIMATE THESE KINGDOMS.IT NEEDS BE EMPHASIZED
    THAT AS AT THE TIME THESE VANDALS APPEARED IN SOUTH AFRICA, THERE WAS NO
    LAND IN THAT PART OF THE CONTINENT THAT COULD BE PROPERLY DECLARED AS
    “BONA VACANTIA” AND THUS FREE FOR SETTLEMENT. ALL LANDS IN AFRICA FROM
    TIME IMMEMORIAL BELONGED TO A FAMILY, COMMUNITY OR A POWER; NO MATTER HOW FAR IT
    MAY BE FROM CENTRAL CONTROL.

    FINALLY, I AM OF THE VIEW THAT A RE-EDUCATION ON THE ORIGIN AND PROPER USAGE OR UNDERSTANDING
    OF THE TERM “VANDALS” MAY BE APPOSITE HERE. ETYMOLOGICALLY, THE WORD “VANDAL” IS
    FROM THE EAST GERMANIC WORD “VANDILII”. IT WAS USED TO REFER TO AN
    EAST GERMANIC TRIBE THAT INVADED AFRICA IN CIRCA 440 AND DECIMATED
    EVERYTHING ALONG THEIR PATH (JUST LIKE YOUR DUTCH ANCESTORS). THE WORD IS
    NOW SYNONYMOUS WITH A COVETOUS, UNCULTURED, DESTRUCTIVE, GODLESS AND
    BALEFUL PEOPLE LACKING IN INTEGRITY OR CULTURAL ORIGINALITY WHO MALICIOUSLY
    PILLAGE OTHER PEOPLES RESOURCES. THE TERM WAS USED BY ME IN MY EARLIER COMMENT ABOVE IN THIS CONTEXT. PERHAPS YOU NEED AN ADVANCED DICTIONARY? FINALLY, MAY I BESEECH YOU NOT PATRONIZE
    ME BY ATTEMPTING TO TEACH ME MY HISTORY; I AM AN EMBODIMENT OF IT!!!

  • Jaap Kote

    An Icon for the masses, a fraud , jointly manufactured is RSA, by the old National party, The US the UN and GB. He served for 4 years, using all the, still working and functional institutions to cement his heritage. When ANC Kader deployment and BEE and other destructive ANC policies came to bare the old coward was nowhere to be seen.

  • Renee

    Strange that you veto our comments then why bother to have a page like this where we are not allowed to air own opinion….

  • http://chrisderablog.blogspot.com Chrisdera Chichriso

    Great man in history … Check of Mandela’s burial photos here http://chrisderablog.blogspot.com/2013/12/photos-from-nelson-mandelas-funeral.html

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  • Dude@MU4Life

    i accidently came across this whole argument and to me its sad to read how much racism is out there and its easy to judge if it did not happen to you.You want to speak bad about a man who sacrificed his life on earth fighting for freedom of others,i don care how many sins he had he still made that sacrifice.Can you imagine what it would of meant for any party of this stupid argument if he did not make that sacrifice.Non-white would of died in numbers,children,babies,mothers ,fathers the whole lot but then for the white ,you would of lived in so much fear not knowing if a non-white is going to kill your child on his/her way to school, if they going to attack your neighborhood next, it would be the same losses.Can you not see how lucky we are for where we are today ,its human to first to protect your own but the bigger picture is ,we are one.How blind must we all be when life shows us all the answers ,we just cant spot all of them.Take a war for example,if your country is at war then the whole country stands together as one no matter what race you are,its not in the minds at that moment,they help and give shelter to one another but after the war is done it all goes back to normal ,well that what the majority thinks is normal. My questions are why can it not stay that way and why must there be a joint fear to unite people.Im really no saint but i am human,please..please..please..lets all be

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